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Discussion in 'Weapons and Tactics' started by MadSquabbles500, Jan 23, 2017.
What's your current gun again?
Don't have a dedicated competition gun at the moment. Didn't get to shoot much this past year, since my first son was born. I ran my 1911 once this year only at Steel Challenge, but no one shoots single stack anymore where I shoot, so I end up getting lumped in with everyone else in the limited category.
The plan for this year is to get my hands on a CZ P10c when they come out, and run that all year at comps.
So.. with this switch over..... how soon do the M9s go on sale... what would the price be.. and how would a certain Panda be able to get his hands on one?
I missed out on the 1911s and I'd like to get an M9 from the surplus.
It really irks me when people say the 10mm is as or almost as powerful as the the .41Mag. The guy in the video is pretty knowledgable so it surprised me when he'd say something as dumb as that. In similar weighted bullets and similar barrel lengths, comparing max loads; the 10mm is a ballistic twin of the .357mag. Comparing max loads, the .41mag is ~50% more powerful than the 10mm.
Im not surprised the military is moving away from the M9. Personally, I'm a Beretta fan and I like the variants of the 92 model, my favorite being the 92G Vertec. Its a de-cocker only model(no safety) and has a straight backstrap that reduces the size of the grip, which is probably most common complaint about 92/M9. I think the 92/M9 line of pistols are good looking guns and I prefer metal framed full sized pistols. To each their own though.
Ive seen police trade-ins run between $300-$400 depending on wear. I wouldnt be surprised if theyre in the same ballpark. Beretta USA and the US army signed a contract in 2012 for 100,000 M9's so you might be able to land a lightly used or brand new M9 for a bit more.
back when it was being made, factory .41 was almost identical to .40 SW. it was shooting 160 gr loads at about 1100 fps. full power 10mm loads have been exceeding that since inception. The only .41's shooting hotter and harder than full power 10mm were the guys handloading the stuff beyond what was norm. calling 41 generically more powerful than 10mm is like taking the specs for 9mm +P+ rounds and saying 9mm is more powerful than .40/.45
90% of the reason 41 ae went extinct was because it aped .40 so close as to not warrant further investment.
Definitely not aware of past offerings but currently Underwood is launching 210gr at 1560, 230gr at 1450, 265gr at 1350.
Looking at everything else available from other manufacturers it does seem rather weak comparatively. Like in the 450-700 fpe range where as underwood is 1000-1135 fpe.
Interesting stuff. Wonder why it was loaded so soft when the case apparently has quite a lot more potential.
its essentially the same thing with the 10mm. The .41 AE was designed to replicate the .41 magnum loads the police were using, which is to say they were reduced power. so they took the same bullet, half charged it, and reduced a bit of the grain weight and boom, .41 AE. The 10mm was down charged into what eventually became the .40 SW. but oddly, whereas the .40 took off, the 41 stalled and died.
Good to know, I don't understand buying/using a magnum caliber only to nerf it. Just choose something else. Hell you could get .357 and use 38 if it's too much or 44 and use 44 special.
You would think leo or fbi would have had members extensively test the new round before adopting it as standard.
I've heard that LEO and FBI when they dragged in the 10mm were more worried about penetration so they basically tried to grab the hottest round they could find.
The 40 S&W came about (indirectly) because of the 1986 FBI Miami shootout. After that, the FBI decided they needed more firepower so they started testing the 10mm. Some agents couldn't handle the 10mm, so it got cut down and became the 40 S&W.
correct. The winchester silver tips from back in the day were only concerned with expansion. Thats why the testing criteria developed later specified the 12-18 inch penetration necessity. One of the perps in the Miami shootout took a shot in the arm that failed to travel the length of the shoulder and hit a vital organ. ive noticed in my own experience that gel testing is not indicitive of actual penetration in tissue. i hunt hogs with my 10mm often and while my preferred load (180 gr at 1200fps) is rated at 17" penetration, i tend to get roughly 9 to 12 when i pop a pig. enough to send it into the rib cage and organs but not enough to transit the body cavity. I've only gotten full pass throughs with dedicated penetrators.
Well hogs are a bit tougher, thicker hide and have that cartilage shield though so they don't really match that human flesh ballistics gel.
You have to take into account the sheer number of negligent discharges to understand the need for all the safety features. We got some dumb mother fuckers out there.
Also, I think Sig should have gotten the first contract instead of Beretta.
If I read it right, Elmer Keith and others developed the .41mag to have better terminal ballistics than the .357mag and less recoil than .44mag. Keith designed it to push a 210gr bullet in the 1300-1400fps range. Even factory loads replicated Keiths design. While the police loads are in the 10mm wheel house, the max loads far exceed it. Again, Im comparing apples to apples. If you compare one cartridges max load to another cartridges light load, you can say a bunch of silly things, like the .30-06 is almost identical to the .300Win mag or the .40S&W is almost identical to the 10mm
waite, are we comparing the .41 Magnum or the .41 Action express because i was talking about the latter
I think the magnum was the one referenced.
No mention of what the appeal is based on, but...
So, they're acting like snowflakes? LOL. I like my Glock but want to make stereotypical comments about liberal Euros.
Hopefully more details help it make sense. Something tells me they don't really need the business.