Economy US Deficit highest in 6 years ...and increasing!

[waiguoren]

Yes, I think the dems will take the house. You don't?

If I end up taking a position on this, would you be available for a bet? I like betting with older posters.

 

[IReallyDoTrainUFC]

No, Republicans are often big government statists.

Conservatives believe in small government + fiscal responsibility, preservation of traditions, and strong borders.

No not really. Conservatives are the bigger statists than liberals. Conservatives agree with going around the world and starting endless wars that requires trillions of dollars for the warfare state. Conservatives want the government to steal taxpayers money to pay for the defense of OTHER countries borders, not America's.

During the Bush years, the trillions and trillions of dollars of new debt was because of war spending....and what did that accomplish? Every child in America being born with an already 40,000 dollar debt? Wow. Thanks conservatives.

 

[MMAViewer]

The GOP passed and Trump signed into law tax cuts that required 5.0 annualized GDP growth to have a neutral effect on tax revenue. That was never a realistic growth bar to set. There was no sound logic behind it as there are numerous economic bottlenecks in place.

Because the economy is suppose to he Trump's fallback politically speaking the GOP has increased government spending to try and push the economy to the finish line they need politically. It's not working. We've seen two quarters of strong growth but not anywhere near what the GOP needs or near where the tax cuts were predicated on bringing us.

This is a problem as historically speaking the effect of tax cuts in consumer spending is most keenly felt for the two quarters right after they are implemented (Q2 and Q3 in this case) and it is similar with increases in government spending.

So it appears as if the GOP has been debt financing the economy to try and bouy it enough to push them through midterms. If Q2 and Q3 are the high water mark of economic growth, which is historically speaking the case in this situation, then we have got problems moving forward. We are implementing recession spending policies at the other end of the economic cycle, this is not pragmatic governance in the long term. It will inhibit our ability to deal with the next recession.

They cut revenue (from what if would have been) while still increasing spending. The GOP is showing themselves to be the least deficit conscious of the political parties.

It has been their cycle. Spend while in office then cry foul and play the humble conservative who believes in small government and low taxes when out of control. Newton Gingrich was an absolute genius and way ahead of his time with the branding and propaganda ideas and methods he has brought to politics. Half the right still believe trickle down isnt the rich pissing on their wages.

 

[waiguoren]

No not really. Conservatives are the bigger statists than liberals. Conservatives agree with going around the world and starting endless wars that requires trillions of dollars for the warfare state. Conservatives want the government to steal taxpayers money to pay for the defense of OTHER countries borders, not America's.

Conservatism is a political and social philosophy promoting traditional social institutions in the context of culture and civilization. The central tenets of conservatism include tradition, human imperfection, organic society, hierarchy and authority, and property rights.[1]

American conservatism is a broad system of political beliefs in the United States that is characterized by respect for American traditions, support for Judeo-Christian values, economic liberalism, anti-communism and a defense of Western culture. Liberty within the bounds of conformity to Conservatism is a core value, with a particular emphasis on strengthening the free market, limiting the size and scope of government and opposition to high taxes and government or labor union encroachment on the entrepreneur.

Source

During the Bush years, the trillions and trillions of dollars of new debt was because of war spending....and what did that accomplish? Every child in America being born with an already 40,000 dollar debt? Wow. Thanks conservatives.

George W. Bush was not a conservative president.

 

[IReallyDoTrainUFC]

Conservatism is a political and social philosophy promoting traditional social institutions in the context of culture and civilization. The central tenets of conservatism include tradition, human imperfection, organic society, hierarchy and authority, and property rights.[1]

American conservatism is a broad system of political beliefs in the United States that is characterized by respect for American traditions, support for Judeo-Christian values, economic liberalism, anti-communism and a defense of Western culture. Liberty within the bounds of conformity to Conservatism is a core value, with a particular emphasis on strengthening the free market, limiting the size and scope of government and opposition to high taxes and government or labor union encroachment on the entrepreneur.

Source



George W. Bush was not a conservative president.

Conservatives agree with nation building, paying for the defense of other countries borders, and new wars, right?

Those government programs require massive amounts of money, right?

 

[ultramanhyata]

Uh, wages have increased.

About 1% when adjusted against the increase in inflation.

Whoopee! Since we know that only republicans understand how to increase wages for workers - through the market - and since we currently have a republican president and GOP controlled House and Senate I guess this is the most workers can ever hope for. Thanks as always for the crumbs, capitalism!

 

[MMAViewer]

Wrong. Libertarians don't want a police state at the "border". Because police states at borders violate people's rights and can be used to keep people in, like in East Germany.

Libertarians are completely for private property rights.

But the problem with immigration stems from the reason that they come here. If you dismantled the out of control welfare state, the only people that would come to America are the hard working ones who want to contribute to the economy and make a better life for themselves, not the leeches of society.

Statism causes the problem itself. It is the liberal solution to try to solve a government created problem with another government program.

This is an opinion not a fact, even if your "welfare state" assertion were correct.
Kinda disingenuous and biased.

"Leeches" and also "hard working" characteristics are not outlined or defined in human behavior by a particularly countries level of taxation and redistribution of government funds. They are basic independent characteristics of all humans.
Some will have it some won't and conflating the negative behavior into the "migrant" is not accurate.

 

[andnowweknow]

I'm pretty sure it's gone up because Hillary is not in jail.

 

[MMAViewer]

Costs are out pacing wages.
Housing market is getting ready to go the other way. Housing supplies are increasing and prices are stagnant. That is why Trump loses 2020, not because he is an asshole but the economic cycle is about to turn.

I agree. "Its the economy stupid "

 

[Sano]

Revenues have increased under Trump: FY2018 total revenue is estimated at $3.654 trillion. That's higher than FY2016 (Obama's last full year), when revenue was $3.268 trillion.


However, expenditures have also increased under Trump, from $3.853 trillion in FY2016 to an estimated $4.094 trillion in FY2018.

Both parties have more or less gotten all the spending they have wanted since Trump took office. Democrats have mostly gotten the domestic spending increases they wanted, and Republicans have mostly gotten the military spending increases they wanted.

A very noteworthy caveat to the revenue numbers:

"While individual income tax receipts have increased in nominal dollars since last fiscal year, this statistic paints a misleading picture in a number of ways. Specifically, it ignores reductions in other sources of revenue, doesn't account for inflation, and relies in part on revenue raised by last year's tax code. Considering the entire tax code and focusing specifically on this tax year shows that total revenue has declined between 4 and 9 percent.

Whereas individual income tax revenue has risen by 7.9 percent in the first ten months of fiscal year 2018 compared to the first ten months of fiscal year 2017, corporate tax revenue has fallen by over 28 percent. In total, nominal revenue has increased by only 1 percent – well below the rate of inflation."

http://www.crfb.org/blogs/has-revenue-risen-2018

In regards to spending, when the Republicans control the house, senate and presidency, it's a bit disingenuous to say that both parties are responsible for the spending equally.

 

[MMAViewer]

No, Republicans are often big government statists.

Conservatives believe in small government + fiscal responsibility, preservation of traditions, and strong borders.

They want you to believe they believe in small government and responsible spending while the dems are in office but they spend just like every Administration as much as they can. And we do have strong borders you've just been ginned to believe they are open.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

There's only one reason deficits rise.

Obama.

 

[Jack V Savage]

If I end up taking a position on this, would you be available for a bet? I like betting with older posters.

I thought we were still talking about this one.

 

[IReallyDoTrainUFC]

This is an opinion not a fact, even if your "welfare state" assertion were correct.
Kinda disingenuous and biased.

"Leeches" and also "hard working" characteristics are not outlined or defined in human behavior by a particularly countries level of taxation and redistribution of government funds. They are basic independent characteristics of all humans.
Some will have it some won't and conflating the negative behavior into the "migrant" is not accurate.

Lets say that there were no welfare state, and all of the Mexican immigrants that came to America were murderers.

What make a Mexican murderer worse than an American murderer?

 

[waiguoren]

Conservatives agree with nation building, paying for the defense of other countries borders, and new wars, right?

None of that is part of conservatism.

However, plenty of self-identified "conservatives" supported these policies during the GWB years. Many people use the term "neo-conservative" to describe those people (examples: Bill Kristol, Dick Cheney, Paul
Wolfowitz).

It's like how many "leftists" now support laws banning "hate speech" even though left-wing thought is supposed to align with free speech.

 

[waiguoren]

I thought we were still talking about this one.

Baby, you kno I still got eyes 4 U.

 

[IReallyDoTrainUFC]

None of that is part of conservatism.

However, plenty of self-identified "conservatives" supported these policies during the GWB years. Many people use the term "neo-conservative" to describe those people (examples: Bill Kristol, Dick Cheney, Paul
Wolfowitz).

It's like how many "leftists" now support laws banning "hate speech" even though left-wing thought is supposed to align with free speech.

We are talking about borders, right? What sense does it make that the American taxpayer pay for the defense of other nations borders?

I'm well aware of neoconservatism, but conservatives and neoconservatives agree on this point. Why?

 

[Andy Capp]

Costs are out pacing wages.
Housing market is getting ready to go the other way. Housing supplies are increasing and prices are stagnant. That is why Trump loses 2020, not because he is an asshole but the economic cycle is about to turn.

I wish that had something to do with it. Remember when I said this a year ago and all his supporters told me they don't care?

 

[trac209]

Maybe it’s the left over Obama effect,gotta take the bad with the good Obama.

 

[waiguoren]

In regards to spending, when the Republicans control the house, senate and presidency, it's a bit disingenuous to say that both parties are responsible for the spending equally.

I'm not saying they're "equally responsible", as that's not even the way I look at things. The point is that the omnibus bills that have passed under Trump included big increases for both domestic programs that Democrats support and military programs that Republicans support. These bills passed with overwhelming support from both parties.

If the Democrats were opposed to the military spending increases, they could have voted "nay". If the Republicans were opposed to the domestic increases, they could have voted "nay". Aside from some principled people like Rand Paul, few did so.

it ignores reductions in other sources of revenue, doesn't account for inflation

My bad if this is correct. I assumed they were real figures, not nominal.