thoughts opinions on virgil hunter
- Thread starter devante
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I think a lot of guys seek him out thinking he can do the same thing for him that he did for Ward, without recognizing that they aren't Ward. I think Andre might be the only successful fighter he'll have, but I think the benefits he brings Andre aren't necessarily corner advice or anything else you'd directly attribute to a trainer. I think he's a father figure and expected a lot from Andre, and Ward respects him so he pushed himself harder. But that relationship isn't something Berto or Khan, or almost anyone else, are going to get from him. It's a big emotional investment. Instead they're just going to get the guy yelling "let those beautiful hands go!"
I'm not saying he doesn't care about the guys in his charge; but I think it's impossible for him to care about them as much as he does Ward.
I'm not saying he doesn't care about the guys in his charge; but I think it's impossible for him to care about them as much as he does Ward.
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To be honest i really dont think much of him. Decent i guess. But i have seen more than a few guys regress under him
odd to me fighters arent self aware enough to recognize they arent the same as another fighter and can't expect the same results just cus they have the same coach.
i can't say he doesnt understand boxing; its clear that he does, i just don't see the huge improvements in the guys he has taken over. Khan is more disciplined, instead of diving into exchanged; he seems more willing to box. Berto seems to be a bit smarter/calmer; but i can't say he has looked particularly sharp technically, same goes for khan.
now quillin and fonfara are there and daniel jacobs is having him assist in the training...
now there must be something he does; as talented as ward is someone had to guide mold and develop him from scratch. BUT... i just don't know how good he is or what exactly he teaches from a tech or philosophical perspective
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Take a guy like Khan. He believes that Roach was the reason he was underachieving. He's already put the blame for his career on his trainer, so it makes sense that he would see a new trainer as "the answer" and make that sort of mistake (not seeing himself for who he is). It all started with him
One thing Ward has said about Virgil is that he forces him into really uncomfortable situations. He clearly knows something about boxing, but I'm not sure it's something he can really give to anyone else.
Best comparison would be someone like Jack Mosley or Angel Garcia I guess. Obviously they know a thing or two about boxing, but it's their relationships that make them effective. That's my take, anyway.
p.s. glad to see you around these parts brother.
that the conclusion i have come to, you can't no nothing at all and get results on any level; there has to be some level of comprehension.
in the case of angel and danny, danny isn't elite in regards to size power speed; he doesnt stand out and he has won multi championships and beat some very very good competition
i have seen trainers mishandle talent before so something has to be done right to get results from talented guys..cus many talented guys have failed..ward didnt neither did mosley or garcia.
ps..yeah good to be back, usually lurk; but just recently got back to posting...
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Dude talks like I imagine pedophiles talk. Creeps me out.
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people who get punched in the face for a living, no matter how much they earn, are not often too bright
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Either they regressed or were already past it when they linked up with him. I'm not sure. But there are some fighters that were kinda shot already when they started with him.
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Hes a clown..I preffer cottos old trainer Dias
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He has a really annoying voice. But, he knows thing, so watch out. If ya know what I mean?
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I remember durring the Froch fight he kept talking about Carl's wife. I cant remember exactly what he said but in one of his random thoughts it was super rapey. I was like man he seems super creepy. Hide your wife Carl. In all fairness she is an 11 though.
I think he was great for Ward and its a perfect match. I think hes too philosophical and mentality oriented for most guys. Plus i think a lot of the stuff he says is him trying way to hard to be clever.
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you guys are fucked up, see? now you got me thinking he sounds like a molestor. funny thing, all people, myself included are suggestible, i remember a time when i worked at a grocery store and another worker ripped the store off, suddenly people were talking about all the wierd quirks they noticed about her after and i was up in the mix too "yeah, yeah, i noticed that shit too!" Anyway, i don't know much about virg but i liked what i've heard. he might be a conman, i don't know. most of the folks here who spend a lot of time analyzing his vocal inflections probably know him better than me though.
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He's just another flavor of the month "celebrity trainer" that became that off of who he trains not as a result of his own actual talent as a trainer. Just like Roach, buddy mcgirt, and Abel sanchez.
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I still have trouble seeing a guy like that build a fighter like Ward who is very proficient in just about every way despite not being a remotely gifted puncher (in any way, we're talking delivery and power). His record with any fighter who has come to him is very poor it seems (I loved his gameplan for Angulo against Lara and it was more subtle than people give it credit for). Maybe he is shit, but Ward learned a lot of things that we rarely see these days from somewhere.
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Every time someone brings up a trainer, people say one of two things to detract from them. 1 is that they've never built a fighter from scratch. Or, in the alternative, that they only ever had one great fighter they built from scratch. Few ATG trainers are able to claim to have done both.
Virgil trained Ward from scratch. Obviously Ward is a great talent, but talent alone doesn't turn you into the kind of fighter Ward is. He has the fundamentals firmly in place and has superb technique in all areas. That has to be taught, and Virgil is responsible.
As to the other fighters he's gotten, he's received them very late in his career. Hard to make meaningful changes after a fighter has already hit their prime. But even then he's been able to make a good account of himself. Angulo gave Lara hell, then had weight problems with Canelo and seemed pretty much done as a fighter afterward. Khan kept having problems with discipline but added new techniques to his game, including an inside game, creative use of the lead hand, and smarter footwork. And Berto, maybe the one at the lowest point of his career when he went to Virgil, was able to give a passable account of himself against Floyd. I'd say that's something at least.
Virgil trained Ward from scratch. Obviously Ward is a great talent, but talent alone doesn't turn you into the kind of fighter Ward is. He has the fundamentals firmly in place and has superb technique in all areas. That has to be taught, and Virgil is responsible.
As to the other fighters he's gotten, he's received them very late in his career. Hard to make meaningful changes after a fighter has already hit their prime. But even then he's been able to make a good account of himself. Angulo gave Lara hell, then had weight problems with Canelo and seemed pretty much done as a fighter afterward. Khan kept having problems with discipline but added new techniques to his game, including an inside game, creative use of the lead hand, and smarter footwork. And Berto, maybe the one at the lowest point of his career when he went to Virgil, was able to give a passable account of himself against Floyd. I'd say that's something at least.
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Even with the way Ward is trained, there are obvious flaws, but there is an obvious wealth of knowledge there. You don't learn how to manage distance and fight on the inside like Ward does without some direction.
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Why is punching a gift but not all of the other stuff Ward does well? Shouldn't a good coach be able to teach proper punching mechanics? Look what Freddie did with Manny's right hand mid career.
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The way you deliver a punch is largely natural. Manny was a massively gifted puncher from the beginning. Ward isn't. I see it as similar to throwing a ball. You can't teach an arm. Ward still throws a poor right hand, and that's more or less uncorrectable. I do think it's funny that I'm telling a great fighter that his punch or technique is uncorrectable.
