The US Will Have Single Payer and The Complete Lives System Within 10 Years

[JudoThrowFiasco]

One of the key parts of public healthcare system is cost control.

How would California control costs?

Same way provinces do it in Canada? Cutting out middle man insurers and dealing with health providers directly. Better question is how would you stop the drain of talent leaving the state.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Ok say you make 50K a year. Government already taxes you 30% The leave you with 35,000. Then they tax you an additional 10% per year for single payer. That's another 5,000 gone. You are down to $30000. After necessities like rent, food, and bills...Are you better off paying into a system that doesn't care how much you put in system when it's time to use it or are you better off keeping the money the government takes from you in taxes to actually buy a plan that works for you and your family because thats who you are buying for not everyone else.





GDP has nothing to do with the State Budget. California only collects 236 million a year in taxes for residents. They would need 400 million a year to run single payer in California. That is a 10% minimum tax increase on California Resident to pay for the system. people would leave the state and then the system would fall apart.

source on 236 million a year on income tax collection?

this source disagrees with you

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/state-tax-revenue-data.html

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

....because it's unsustainable

I I don't understand this you guys already pay twice per covered person than most universal healthcare systems and those opposed to Universal Health Care say cost will double again

This math doesn't make sense to me, I live in Canada and I'm very happy with our health care as is everyone I know.

You can say you don't want it that's fine , trying to say it's impossible is just ridiculous

 

[nostradumbass]

If by dramatically you mean around 10% or so then yes. That is about the Insurance company to to keep out the premiums they take in. The rest is paid out to cover health care costs.

10% of what is already a really high expense is a lot. I'm 33, and have been to the doctor once as an adult, with a grand total of $250. Should I have been paying $300/month for the last 10 years to get that one doctor visit?

 

[m52nickerson]

Ok say you make 50K a year. Government already taxes you 30% The leave you with 35,000. Then they tax you an additional 10% per year for single payer. That's another 5,000 gone. You are down to $30000. After necessities like rent, food, and bills...Are you better off paying into a system that doesn't care how much you put in system when it's time to use it or are you better off keeping the money the government takes from you in taxes to actually buy a plan that works for you and your family because thats who you are buying for not everyone else.

For most people paying the extra 10% would be far better. Look at your example, It is very likely that a person making 50K a year that has health insurance is paying near 5000 a year just in premiums. So paying the extra in taxes an losing the premium cost does not change anything for them. However, that person also saves on the cost of co-pays or upfront costs, so in the end they save. This is more so if that person was to have a single stay in the hospital or is on long term medication.

Plus, we already pay for those that use health care services and can't pay. We all all in this together.

 

[m52nickerson]

10% of what is already a really high expense is a lot. I'm 33, and have been to the doctor once as an adult, with a grand total of $250. Should I have been paying $300/month for the last 10 years to get that one doctor visit?

You would not just be paying for that one doctor's visit. As some point in your life you are going to need more care, most likely will be in the hospital as some point. That is when you end up saving money.

 

[Gutter Chris]

LEMME HEAR THAT DIRTYWORD !!

 

[nostradumbass]

You would not just be paying for that one doctor's visit. As some point in your life you are going to need more care, most likely will be in the hospital as some point. That is when you end up saving money.

But you don't, cause you've already paid that amount, plus 10%. I would have already paid over $30k. Insurance is you banking on being in a pool of obese people. You think my health liability is the same as some fat trucker?

 

[Scheme]

10% of what is already a really high expense is a lot. I'm 33, and have been to the doctor once as an adult, with a grand total of $250. Should I have been paying $300/month for the last 10 years to get that one doctor visit?

At the end of the day healthcare is just a way of forcing tax payers to pay for other people.

You would not just be paying for that one doctor's visit. As some point in your life you are going to need more care, most likely will be in the hospital as some point. That is when you end up saving money.

So you're saying that a regular tax payer is too incompetent or unable to pay for his healthcare throughout his life that he needs the government to tell him how to do it?

Government is ineffective, inefficient and incompetent. They like to throw money at problems. They are not concerned with the individual. I personally believe that an individual is more capable of taking care of themselves than the government is (and running the government also costs lots of money).

 

[nostradumbass]

At the end of the day healthcare is just a way of forcing tax payers to pay for other people.



So you're saying that a regular tax payer is too incompetent or unable to pay for his healthcare throughout his life that he needs the government to tell him how to do it?

Government is ineffective, inefficient and incompetent. They like to throw money at problems. They are not concerned with the individual. I personally believe that an individual is more capable of taking care of themselves than the government is (and running the government also costs lots of money).

Too right. I'm still waiting for anyone who will bet money the Maxine Waters can read. She lives in $5 million home and has given her daughter $600,000, and I'll eat a knife and commit e-suicide today if Maxine Waters can read 1 page of a William Shakespeare play.

 

[TheStruggle]

source on 236 million a year on income tax collection?

this source disagrees with you

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/state-tax-revenue-data.html

Link doesn't work

http://www.latimes.com/politics/ess...sis-of-single-payer-1495475434-htmlstory.html


The analysis found that the proposal would require:

• A total cost of $400 billion per year to cover all healthcare and administrative costs.
• Of that, $200 billion of existing federal, state and local funds could be repurposed to go toward the single-payer system.
• The additional $200 billion would need to be raised from new taxes.

 

[ripskater]

As opposed to the "product" a poor rural family wouldnt be able to afford for their child with a life threatening illness?

Pick your poison but I'll pick the system where everyone has healthcare regardless of their finances.

This is America. We have an identity here. We look after our own.

You're trading freedom here.

 

[lecter]

Of course, we shouldn't have universal health care at all but if anything at least go for a system like in Switzerland or Germany, the left's love for a single payer system is bizarre.

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

It will be a product. And when govt takes over healthcare, you are going to get the treatment (product) that the govt believes you should get.

No your doctor will

 

[ripskater]

No your doctor will

Not if govt is telling the doctor what to do.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Link doesn't work

http://www.latimes.com/politics/ess...sis-of-single-payer-1495475434-htmlstory.html


The analysis found that the proposal would require:

• A total cost of $400 billion per year to cover all healthcare and administrative costs.
• Of that, $200 billion of existing federal, state and local funds could be repurposed to go toward the single-payer system.
• The additional $200 billion would need to be raised from new taxes.

ah, now youve changed your facts from millions to billions which makes more sense -- but yes, California economy could take the hit to increase tax revenue and still remain among the highest gdp in the country. (GDP is a viable indicator of economic strength as is there per capita personal income increase: which is steadily increasing. You're right that people would flee -- but if you noticed, i only listed Liberal states in questioning why they didnt adopt SPHC / UHC. I omitted Texas which also could afford it. So, yes, California could sustain the increase in taxation (progressive taxation not flat across the board) but many people would leave -- which demonstrates that limousine liberals are not as pious as they portray themselves

 

[WiolentOne]

You're trading freedom here.

No. Im volunteering of my own free will to partake in a system.

There's enough individuals in this country who support single payer to use collective bargaining to lowering the costs of our healhcare. The majority of Americans support it.

Ideally you would be exempt if you chose to be. I know its an uphill battle but id seriously push for your right to be exempt. Similar to under Obamacare you can file for a religious exemption.

Also, private hospitals and healthcare can coexist along side a single payer system. Similar to how plastic surgeons have made a living out of elective surgery paid out of pocket.

 

[TheStruggle]

ah, now youve changed your facts from millions to billions which makes more sense -- but yes, California economy could take the hit to increase tax revenue and still remain among the highest gdp in the country. (GDP is a viable indicator of economic strength as is there per capita personal income increase: which is steadily increasing. You're right that people would flee -- but if you noticed, i only listed Liberal states in questioning why they didnt adopt SPHC / UHC. I omitted Texas which also could afford it. So, yes, California could sustain the increase in taxation (progressive taxation not flat across the board) but many people would leave -- which demonstrates that limousine liberals are not as pious as they portray themselves

EDIT: That was suppose to be billion from the start, typo on my part

 

[ripskater]

No. Im volunteering of my own free will to partake in a system.

There's enough individuals in this country who support single payer to use collective bargaining to lowering the costs of our healhcare. The majority of Americans support it.

Ideally you would be exempt if you chose to be. I know it's unlikely but I'd seriously push for your right to be exempt.

Also, private hospitals and healthcare can coexist along side a single payer system. Similar to how plastic surgeons have made a living out of elective surgery paid out of pocket.

The problem is that my taxes will go up to pay for "the system."

That's less money I would have in a rainy day account for when I get sick or injured and I choose to exercise my freedom to get treatment that the govt does not say is necessary or proper.

That's less freedom for you.

 

[m52nickerson]

But you don't, cause you've already paid that amount, plus 10%. I would have already paid over $30k. Insurance is you banking on being in a pool of obese people. You think my health liability is the same as some fat trucker?

No I don't, but that is any type of pooled system works. Healthcare in the US is always going to be that type of system unless to get rid of laws that require treatment for those that can't pay.