The "Tyrannical Government" argument....

[Whippy McGee]

Before starting, I have no problem with gun ownership. I own myself and absolutely believe in the right to own firearms for self protection. I do not think that means anyone should be able to own firearms or that every type of firearm should be legal. Regulation and control is needed.

That statement can be argued in many different directions but the one I would like to focus on is owning weapons to defend yourself from a Tyrannical Government. This statement I find ridiculous for two reasons:

1.) For the government to turn on it's own people the military would have to be involved. Members of the military would have to march through the streets of the US and turn their weapons on the citizens. I have been in the military for 14 years and I can say, without a shadow or a doubt, that this will NEVER happen. I don't know a single person that I have served with that could ever be convinced to do this. Flat out, it will never happen with the volunteer force we have. Only nut jobs believe this might happen

2.) If in some conspiracy theory, fantasy world, this did happen, you can buy all the AR 15s you want but you're getting fucked up and quick. If the US Military went balls out on the public we're all dead.

So I think the Tyrannical Government argument is pretty moot when it comes to a reason for gun ownership.

Bullshit.

See: Viet Nam, Afghanistan,

The government should fear the people, not the other way around.

We are Americans. We needed arms to get our freedoms less than 250 years ago. Freedom is precious and 250 years is not a long time. The argument forwarded above is for serfs, not for Americans.

 

[Higus]

Bullshit.

See: Viet Nam, Afghanistan,

The government should fear the people, not the other way around.

We are Americans. We needed arms to get our freedoms less than 250 years ago. Freedom is precious and 250 years is not a long time. The argument forwarded above is for serfs, not for Americans.

Hold the phone, where the fuck do you think the Vietnamese and Afghani fighting forces got their weapons from?

 

[skaleton]

We got rid of our militia system in favor of more organized National Guard units with the Militia Act of 1903. This was fine for some time and no one actually cared, but it was eventually ruled that the people = militia based on the nomenclature of the 2nd and now they just make pretend everyone is a militia member.

Sounds weak as fuck. I want an armory in every neighborhood, regular training and some sense of community to go with my RPGs and aks

 

[skaleton]

Also, seems insane to me to pretend in any way like some dudes with a bunch of guns they kinda know how to use qualifies as well regulated in any bodies book

 

[Whippy McGee]

Hold the phone, where the fuck do you think the Vietnamese and Afghani fighting forces got their weapons from?

.... and you missed the point, which was an armed local populace with a similar arm to that of a light infantryman of an adversarial government force, even the U.S.A., has a chance.

Arms keep up free and the government in check.

 

[Rational Poster]

.... and you missed the point, which was an armed local populace with a similar arm to that of a light infantryman of an adversarial government force, even the U.S.A., has a chance.

Arms keep up free and the government in check.

The Vietnamese and Afghani opposition forces didn't just use small arms. They weren't just armed locals either. Many well trained foreign fighters were involved in both conflicts directly and as advisers to our opposition.

At the time, the Vietnamese fielded the most advanced missile defense system we had ever encountered. It was supplied, designed, and even manned by Soviets. We never achieved more than temporary air superiority against the NVA.

It's pure fantasy that they were just witless peasants armed with Kalashnikovs in both conflicts.

 

[Higus]

The Vietnamese and Afghani opposition forces didn't just use small arms. They weren't just armed locals either. Many well trained foreign fighters were involve in both conflicts directly and as advisers to our opposition.

At the time, the Vietnamese fielded the most advanced missile defense system we had ever encountered. It was supplied, designed, and even manned by Soviets. We never achieved more than temporary air superiority against the NVA.

It's pure fantasy that they were just witless peasants armed with Kalashnikovs in both conflicts.

Just to add to this, he makes more of an argument about guerilla tactics being effective (no shit) rather than any argument about a right to bear arms preventing or stopping a tyrannical government.
Also consider that if the Vietnamese considered the right to bear arms so important to their freedom, you would think they'd have very loose gun control laws today.

 

[Whippy McGee]

^^^^^ duh....

How do you think an armed populace stops a tyrannical government? By lining up on the battlefield and saying "please drone us"? Or with guerilla warfare and a bunch of AR-15's and AK-47's.