The level of grappling knowledge in the heavies

[EndlessCritic]

Sherdog answers: Why are there more guillotine attempts in the UFC compared to d'arce and anaconda attempts? (I'm not convinced it's true, but let's pretend it is.)

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/w...t-so-few-darce-and-anaconda-attempts.3479561/

Guillotine is the more BASIC taught choke in most BJJ schools from my experience.

a darce choke looks hard to go for. as a non ufc traner.

more affective

The guillotine just seems like a natural reaction. Other chokes look like they require more technique.

Guillotine is far less technical. When Kendall Grove got the d'arce on Alan Belcher and I had no idea wtf was going on, maybe Belcher didn't either.

Guillotines are everywhere, especially in MMA, and there's many varieties. D'arce and anaconda both require a more specific set of conditions to attempt, and are more technically difficult to apply properly.

 

[ArtemV]

Yeah, I agree. Especially if you come from a wrestling background, the headlock is there and a guillotine will shortly follow. It also helps if you have longer arms for anaconda and darce chokes too. However, the guillotine is usually more readily available to go for, if you have someone hurt and they take a bad shot, you can usually get straight to a good tapping position, whereas if you go for the other options, they take a few more seconds to get in proper position in order to tap, which could change the outcome very much.

It all depends on how much time you put into it. But there isn't a lot of specialists in the UFC, and when somebody goes into an mma gym for the first time, they are likely gonna have the idea that grabbing the head, pulling some sort of guard and squeezing it, will make something good happen.

 

[Thrawn33]

Your average Heavies poster has either never grappled, or quit early.


Hell many didn't know Judo had subs before Ronda came along...and even then there was some explaining....

 

[JosephDredd]

thought this thread was going to be about who were the best grapplers in the heavyweight division . was looking forward to all the noobs who wouldn't believe Roy Nelson beat Mir in a bjj comp.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

99% of the people in the heavies do not train, and less than anythkng grapple... To be honest it's kind of snobby to expect all Mma fans do some type of martial arts training...

 

[Thrawn33]

99% of the people in the heavies do not train, and less than anythkng grapple... To be honest it's kind of snobby to expect all Mma fans do some type of martial arts training...

I agree, and I'm guilty to some extent, but it is annoying reading some of the interwebz grapplers expert opinions....."all he had to do was sprawl and not get taken down and he would've won...." (insert youdontsay.img)

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

99% of the people in the heavies do not train, and less than anythkng grapple... To be honest it's kind of snobby to expect all Mma fans do some type of martial arts training...

I slightly disagree. In the America a majority of sports fans have at least played their chosen sport at some point in life, even if it was a little league or pee wee league when they were kids. But with American MMA fans, the vast majority have never trained anything, not even karate as a little kid. Hell most don't even go to the gym on top of it.

Just my opinion.

 

[DoctorTaco]

99% of the people in the heavies do not train, and less than anythkng grapple... To be honest it's kind of snobby to expect all Mma fans do some type of martial arts training...

I've never understood why more mma fans don't train. If you like it, do it.

 

[NateTx4112]

When Kendall Grove got the d'arce on Alan Belcher and I had no idea wtf was going on, maybe Belcher didn't either.

Skipping the rest of the post but yes....Belcher knows what a D'arce is.

 

[Uchi Mata]

I've never understood why more mma fans don't train. If you like it, do it.

The getting punched in the face part, mostly. We forget about that because we're all so used to contact, but most normal people will do almost anything to avoid getting punched in the face. Much less pay for the privilege.

Also time, family, money, the usual suspects. It's totally okay in my book to be a fan of a sport and not practice it, just don't get it in your head that you really know what's going on. I like watching football but when I watch it with people who played in college, I don't argue with them when they tell me what's going on in some defensive scheme.

 

[DoctorTaco]

The getting punched in the face part, mostly. We forget about that because we're all so used to contact, but most normal people will do almost anything to avoid getting punched in the face. Much less pay for the privilege.

Oh yeah. Come to think of it, "I could
Be really good at "X" instead of a mid level ammy boxer by now if I spent the time doing "X" instead of boxing" is a running joke at our gym, particularly after a few bad sparring rounds or a grueling conditioning class.

Ironically, jits is the only thing I like to watch but hate to do.

 

[MaxMMA]

The d'arce and anaconda are actually just as simple as the guillotine, and are just as high percentage as the guillotine. Like all submissions these two come down to proper technique most people don't even do the guillotine correctly and the guillotine is a sub that will be drilled more than the d'arce or anaconda because its sub grappling 101, but in my opinion the guillotine/d'arce/anaconda all belong on the same day of training. Obviously someone with long lean arms and a more concave chest will excel at subs like the d'arce/anaconda because of the final finishing position, while the guillotine can be highly effective by persons of any build.

 

[ultimateriley-o]

I wrote the last response

Guillotines are everywhere, especially in MMA, and there's many varieties. D'arce and anaconda both require a more specific set of conditions to attempt, and are more technically difficult to apply properly.

in the OP. I am open to discussing it if you disagree, but I'm also curious what you concluded about my grappling knowledge based on the post.

 

[rmongler]

I think if anything, guillotines are more complicated to apply than figure four chokes.

 

[mataleaos]

Most people in the heavies don't train, or don't currently. As for what they're saying there, most of those posts are incorrect or don't tell the entire story. The darce has gained a lot of steam and the anaconda has lost a lot. There used to be way more anacondas that darces, but I think there were something like 3 or 4 darces in the ufc from 2007 through 2011, and then in 2013 there were like 5 or 6 in that year by itself. There have already been 2 or 3 this year in the ufc and it's only March 1st. You see it attempted almost every event and people have figured out that it's more versatile than the anaconda. As for the Grove vs Belcher fight. of course it caught Belcher off guard. It was the first darce in ufc history and I doubt Belcher knew what was going on until it was too late (if he knew at all.)

The guillotine is more common than every sub besides the RNC for a lot of reasons. There are a dozen ways to do it. Tons of grips. Tons of entries. The darce is close in terms of entries and finishes but not quite as ubiquitous. The guillotine is taught earlier generally speaking. And it's just having a big moment of popularity in mma right now. There are even articles about it.

http://www.mmafighting.com/2015/10/...k-2015-and-the-return-of-the-guillotine-choke

 

[randomg1t]

To be honest it's kind of snobby to expect all Mma fans do some type of martial arts training...

why? i never understood that.

how can you be a fan of a sport and never try it? and it's not like these sports can't be done recreationally, the vast majority of us here do this stuff as a hobby.

 

[mattemate]

I haven't posted in the heavies for years. After tuf the knowledge of the average poster took a nosedive

 

[mataleaos]

why? i never understood that.

how can you be a fan of a sport and never try it? and it's not like these sports can't be done recreationally, the vast majority of us here do this stuff as a hobby.

I don't think it's snobby but I don't think it's realistic. I mean lots of people are fans of mainstream sports that have never played them. More football fans have tried football than MMA fans have tried martial arts, but I understand why. Combat sports and martial arts are scary to most people. Fighting is something that almost all people will watch but most people don't want to do it for fun, even in a controlled and safe-ish environment.

I do get surprised I guess that very die hard fans don't dip their toes in the water but for casual fans I totally get it.

I think there are degrees of overlap for different sports. Almost everyone that watches grappling sports grapples. Some people that watch MMA do martial arts. A lot more people that watch ball sports have played them.

 

[ultimateriley-o]

The guillotine is more common than every sub besides the RNC for a lot of reasons. There are a dozen ways to do it. Tons of grips. Tons of entries. The darce is close in terms of entries and finishes but not quite as ubiquitous. The guillotine is taught earlier generally speaking. And it's just having a big moment of popularity in mma right now. There are even articles about it.

http://www.mmafighting.com/2015/10/...k-2015-and-the-return-of-the-guillotine-choke

This is pretty much what I was saying in the original thread.

I think it would be a better comparison and more worthwhile conversation to say all guillotines vs all arm triangles.

 

[Calibur]

why? i never understood that.

how can you be a fan of a sport and never try it? and it's not like these sports can't be done recreationally, the vast majority of us here do this stuff as a hobby.

Do you think all mike Tyson fans should have boxing experience?