The HW division isn't weak

[Claude]

Right now it is.

A decade ago it was one of the most stacked.

 

[Kinku]

Of course the talent pool in HW is smaller, HW can make more money somewhere else or in a different sport more so than any division. Look at Maywether body guards, they probably get paid more than most of UFC HW.

 

[trolldum]

It's also wrong to think that if there was more money in the MMA, every athletic guy would like to be punched in the head and get brain trauma for life after few beatings.

It's almost like saying that if organ trade was legal, everybody would sell their kidneys.

 

[Super Grover]

Firstly, the fact that the top guys are in their mid-to-late 30s is a testament to how great they are.

lol. That is pretty much exactly backwards.


Show me a sport ruled by guys in their mid 30's and I will show you a sport with a very shallow talent pool.

 

[trolldum]

lol. That is pretty much exactly backwards.


Show me a sport ruled by guys in their mid 30's and I will show you a sport with a very shallow talent pool.

True, Federer sucks, Wimbledon is garbage.

 

[ticho123]

So I'm seeing this sentence being said a lot and I must say I disagree.

Firstly, the fact that the top guys are in their mid-to-late 30s is a testament to how great they are. Miocic, Reem, Dos Santos, Cain, Werdum are all great fighters. Pretty soon they'll get old and young guys like Ngannou, Blaydes will overtake them. Is normal.

Secondly, I'm tired of people using the Black Beast and Big Country as proof that the division sucks. No it does not. It only shows us what we already know. That sometimes but not always, 'crude' fighters can go far into the sport on sheer toughness and guts. In boxing there was Marciano, at LW there is Gaethje. These guys all have/had a degree of skill to put that toughness to good use.

So relax guys, HW isn't weak.

Are you seriously comparing Gaethje with Black beast and Nelson? He took some heavy shots in his last fight, but obviously his offensive boxing is solid as well as strong cardio. Like seriously, how can you draw this connection? These mid-tier HWs just wing their punches and gas in two rounds max.

 

[Super Grover]

True, Federer sucks, Wimbledon is garbage.

Oh, you mean the guy who just became the oldest man to ever win Wimbledon at age 35? You are proving my point and don't even know it lol.

The average age of the top 10 in men's tennis is like 28. Federer is the only guy over 32 in the top 20 and the only guy to be any good at 35 basically in tennis history.

 

[empsim]

sure they are good at fighting

but they tend to be kinda slow and gas quickly. just doesnt seem like we are watching elite athletes fight....

 

[trolldum]

Oh, you mean the guy who just became the oldest man to ever win Wimbledon at age 35? You are proving my point and don't even know it lol.

The average age of the top 10 in men's tennis is like 28. Federer is the only guy over 32 in the top 20.

Point is that he was dominating despite being older. He didn't lose a single set against all these younger guys. Number one in ATP rankings is 30, number two 31, number four 31 year old...

Nobody in top 5 under 30, sounds weak according to your logic.

 

[Bubblun]

I want to you to find Mark Hunt and ask him if he's physically capable of even attempting something like this at his advanced age.

Spoiler

Spoiler: He isn't

If we somehow got Mark Hunt of today to fight Mark Hunt of 10 years ago, the Hunt of today would be brutally KO'd.
He's significantly slower and significantly less agile.

His takedown defense has improved, and he's become a crafty vet..

But I don't agree. Mark Hunt was elite in Pride. He definitely had a weird mid career funk, but when he beat Wand and Cro Cop in Pride he was legit one of the best kickboxers in the world. He is not anywhere near that level nowadays. I think if Mark fought himself from 12 years ago he would lose brutally

Watch Mark Hunt fights folks, that's all you need, a GIF doesn't mean shit, and for sure Mark Hunt is very capable of doing a piss poor spinning kick that missed by a mile.



He was 275 pounds, Wanderlei was 203, basically a middleweight by today standards, and Wand took him down like 8 times during the fight.



Mousasi tripped him with ease, and submitted him even easier, Mark Hunt simply wasn't a good fighter, there is not doubt about it.

Watch the Brock Lesnar fight for fucks sake, Lesnar was a juiced up 290 pounds NCAA wrestler and had hard time taking Mark Hunt down, most of the takedown were against the cage.
In the ring Hunt probably would have won, but you say Mark Hunt declined? You are out of your mind.
It isn't some kind crazy argument, Mark Hunt mma record speak for itself.

He got a nice win against Wanderlei because he was 73 pounds heavier than Wand and another close fight with Crocop because Mirko was a one dimensional kickboxer like Hunt.
Actually that Mark Hunt had a win against Crocop, who was the second or third best heavyweight at the time, early in his mma career tell how weak was the division back then, that's like saying Gokhan Saki would beat Cormier or Gustaffson right away.


Let's face it, the heavyweight division got better like every other division, the guys that were fighting 10 years ago that are on top today like Werdum, Overeem and Hunt, are far far better now than in the past, if not they wouldn't even be competitive.

 

[HaulParris]

So I'm seeing this sentence being said a lot and I must say I disagree.

Firstly, the fact that the top guys are in their mid-to-late 30s is a testament to how great they are. Miocic, Reem, Dos Santos, Cain, Werdum are all great fighters. Pretty soon they'll get old and young guys like Ngannou, Blaydes will overtake them. Is normal.

Secondly, I'm tired of people using the Black Beast and Big Country as proof that the division sucks. No it does not. It only shows us what we already know. That sometimes but not always, 'crude' fighters can go far into the sport on sheer toughness and guts. In boxing there was Marciano, at LW there is Gaethje. These guys all have/had a degree of skill to put that toughness to good use.

So relax guys, HW isn't weak.

I can agree on most points except on Gaethje - he's more than just toughness and guts. His style seems sloppy and lacking in defense, but he's actually a very gifted striker with a wide arsenal, and has great fight IQ even when he seems half-conscious.

 

[RiotWyatt]

Yes HW is weak now compared to in the past. The top contenders coming up are plodding punchers with no ground game.

Fighters used to be well versed and could fight anywhere. Nowadays they just close their eyes and see who lands first. If it ever goes to the ground they just lay there like beached whales.

 

[CrimsonFan]

Watch Mark Hunt fights folks, that's all you need, a GIF doesn't mean shit, and for sure Mark Hunt is very capable of doing a piss poor spinning kick that missed by a mile.



He was 275 pounds, Wanderlei was 203, basically a middleweight by today standards, and Wand took him down like 8 times during the fight.



Mousasi tripped him with ease, and submitted him even easier, the guy simply wasn't good, there is not doubt about it.

Watch the Brock Lesnar fight for fucks sake, Lesnar was a juiced up 290 pounds NCAA wrestler and had hard time taking Mark Hunt down, most of the takedown were against the cage.
In the ring Hunt probably would have won, but you say Mark Hunt declined? You are out of your mind.
It isn't some kind crazy argument, Mark Hunt mma record speak for itself.

He got a nice win against Wanderlei because he was 73 pounds heavier than Wand and another close fight with Crocop because Mirko was a one dimensional kickboxer like Hunt.
Actually that Mark Hunt had a win against Crocop, who was the second or third best heavyweight at the time, early in his mma career tell how weak was the division back then, that's like saying Gokhan Saki would beat Cormier or Gustaffson right away.


Let's face it, the heavyweight division got better like every other division, the guys that were fighting 10 years ago that are still on top today like Werdum, Overeem and Hunt, are far far better now than in the past, if not they wouldn't even be competitive.

Dude he's 43 years old.. yes he has declined. It's not a slight decline either, he's 10 years past his best.

I do not think he would have gotten worked over by JDS like he did and headkick KOd if he wasn't 40 years old. I think the Hunt that won the k1 grand prix lays JDS the fuck out.

You're focusing strictly on take down defense, yeah he got better in that aspect.. but his speed, reaction time, and overall athleticism has declined. I think Hunt from back in the day beats his 43 year old self. He would tell you the same thing.

 

[Bubblun]

Dude he's 43 years old.. yes he has declined. It's not a slight decline either, he's 10 years past his best.

I do not think he would have gotten worked over by JDS like he did and headkick KOd if he wasn't 40 years old. I think the Hunt that won the k1 grand prix lays JDS the fuck out.

You're focusing strictly on take down defense, yeah he got better in that aspect.. but his speed, reaction time, and overall athleticism has declined. I think Hunt from back in the day beats his 43 year old self. He would tell you the same thing.

Who has Mark Hunt koed 10 years ago? Nobody.
43 years old Mark Hunt would have koed that Wanderlei in 30 seconds.

The guy fight completely different now, his boxing is cleaner, is timing is better, he is calm an not scared, his conditioning is better, everything is better, even his record.

 

[Congo66]

So I'm seeing this sentence being said a lot and I must say I disagree.

You can disagree but you're wrong.
If fat WW's and MW's can beat actual HWs it just shows you how bad it is.

 

[CrimsonFan]

Who has Mark Hunt koed 10 years ago? Nobody.
43 years old Mark Hunt would have koed that Wanderlei in 30 seconds.

The guy fight completely different now, his boxing is cleaner, is timing is better, he is calm an not scared, his conditioning is better, everything is better, even his record.

You're underrating Wand from that time period in a big way..

It took Cro Cop over 5 rounds to put him away, he made it to a decision with Cro Cop in a fight where the rules were modified in Mirkos favor.. and tbh, he won.

But he gets starched in 30 seconds by a 43 year old Hunt? Yea, you're trolling in done here. Wand from 03 beats the dog shit out of Hunt today. He's so slow.. Derrick Lewis was out striking him in the first round the other night.



And Hunts best win was 16 years ago.. when he KOd Lebanner clean.


Koing Roy Nelson does not compare to that.. like, at all

 

[Super Grover]

Point is that he was dominating despite being older. He didn't lose a single set against all these younger guys.

Federer is the exception, not the rule. Hence why no one else has ever won Wimbledon at 35. Using arguable the greatest male tennis player of all time as an example is really pretty pointless because he is, by definition, a massive outlier. It would be like using Lebron James as an example as to how good the average 18 year old basketball player is.

Number one in ATP rankings is 30, number two 31, number four 31 year old...

Nobody in top 5 under 30, sounds weak according to your logic.

Well only if you consider 30-31 as "mid 30's" because that is what I actually said.

Show me a sport ruled by guys in their mid 30's and I will show you a sport with a very shallow talent pool.

 

[Joshua8531]

So I'm seeing this sentence being said a lot and I must say I disagree.

Firstly, the fact that the top guys are in their mid-to-late 30s is a testament to how great they are. Miocic, Reem, Dos Santos, Cain, Werdum are all great fighters. Pretty soon they'll get old and young guys like Ngannou, Blaydes will overtake them. Is normal.

Secondly, I'm tired of people using the Black Beast and Big Country as proof that the division sucks. No it does not. It only shows us what we already know. That sometimes but not always, 'crude' fighters can go far into the sport on sheer toughness and guts. In boxing there was Marciano, at LW there is Gaethje. These guys all have/had a degree of skill to put that toughness to good use.

So relax guys, HW isn't weak.

It is what it is isn't. Just get whatever enjoyment you can. Obviously most guys athletic and that size are involved in other sports from youth.

 

[SammyG420]

Its the same as boxing...you got good fighters in the top 5-7 then after that its bunch of gatekeepers, no title contenders. Jon Jones could give the division a boost if he decides to (after he beats DC, an I think Gustafson will get a rematch after that) bring Lesnar back after his suspension (I'm not fan of his but it helps spice things up) an make sure Derrick Lewis doesn't retire until he fights Ngannu

 

[campbecc]

How the hell did we go from "the division is weak" to that dumb shit you just said?

I pointed out it's the division with the best fighters that everyone else tortures themselves to avoid having to fight. Not only is it not a weak division, it's the toughest division.

If the division were actually weak then MWs and LHWs would stop cutting weight and fight in the HW division but I don't see that happening.