Technical Analysis of Weidman's Knockout

[a guy]

Never thought I would say this, but I love a guy.

For his analysis.

Naturally.

Hahaha, that's actually pretty clever.

 

[a guy]

First, we need more posters like you in the heavies. There are tons of garbage posts, so it's refreshing to see people breaking down the fight intelligently.

It is my opinion that dropping your hands is ALWAYS an awful strategy and is much more showboating than strategy, to begin with (it's not a coincidence that he idolizes Roy Jones Jr and Ali). I won't argue that there are no positives, because there certainly are. The reason why AS tricks opponents into committing is because dropping the hands is such a terrible strategy! Fighters eyes light up and simply can't resist committing to that opening. AS has been able to use it successfully against guys with very limited striking. Having the hands low helps with the takedowns, which is very important when fighting a guy like CW. Showing that level of dominance also demoralizes your opponent.

Take a look at your analysis (which is very good and accurate, IMO). AS got KTFO because his opponent used proper footwork and threw two punches from the same side, in a row.

THIS IS NOT MIND BLOWING STUFF HERE. That is not very nuanced striking. Congrats to Weidman for recognizing it, preparing well, staying mentally strong and executing. But this was not a masterful KO. He used intermediate technique to KO a guy who had his hands at his hips. The backhand was sloppy (I think you said this, but if he misses the left hook that KO'd Silva, he is in trouble).

He also doesn't need to constantly drop his hands and he shouldn't have faked being hurt. This wasn't to prevent the take down, he tried to trick Weidman into over committing. He did it with bad footwork, which he should have recognized, and brought his hands up.

From a bad position (footwork), he bobbed and weaved in front of a competent striker throwing a combination with his hands down.

IMO, that is more showboating then poor strategy or masterful strategy on CW's part. He didn't respect CW's striking ability and though he could get away with his usual antics.

Kudos to CW, shame on AS.

The hands up vs hands down thing is really hard to talk about because it tends to fall into extremes, but there are absolutely a lot of benefits to keeping the hands low, both for defense and for offense. There are problems with it too.

Long story short, it becomes a liability only when your ability to move your feet and move your head has failed you. If you're Anderson Silva, the type of fighter who relies primarily on both types of movement for defense, your hands are actually much better off assisting your balance and facilitating your movement than creating a physical barrier. However, it ALWAYS looks like a bad idea to his opponents, so they never understand why they can't hit him.

Also, Anderson baits with bad footwork but he does all of these things while out of range. Your footwork can be godawful when your opponent can't reach you as long as you're ready to get in good positions when they can. Weidman knew how to close a lot of distance and managed to control the center so Silva had less room to move. His natural reach made it easier for him to cover ground. His doubling up on the same side, whether sloppy or not, made Silva move the wrong way. Basically, a lot of things went wrong for Silva.

You can't fault Silva for his actions. This was the same Silva that's fought every time. He reached deeper into his bag of taunts, but nothing else really changed. That style helped him become the most legendary champion we're likely to see in MMA for decades. It breaks a lot of rules of what people were taught, but that's just part of why it works.

Also, I really can't agree that dropping your hands is always an awful strategy. It's actually an excellent strategy when done properly.

 

[a guy]

This honestly appears to be more pro Weidman post, even though Anderson also had success towards the end of the 1st and beginning of the 2nd, backing Weidman up multiple times.

I do agree with a lot of the breakdown, but there are some missing points to it on Anderson's end, offensively speaking.

Anderson's success was limited to leg kicks and one good jab that landed, but Weidman was pulling away from it. Honestly, I consider that a pretty one-sided fight. Even when Silva was backing Weidman up, it wasn't because Weidman was overwhelmed or being hit hard. He never ran away, he just avoided shots and got right back in Silva's face.

I'd say Weidman was more in control of that whole fight than Silva, he certainly landed more and better shots to the head, while defending most of Silva's attacks even when they made contact.

 

[a guy]

True, also the fact that he didn't have time to see it coming and brace himself.
Neck got turned > Brain shuts down > Lights go out.

Very true. Even if he did see it, he probably never thought it was gonna hit him.

 

[Phenom116]

All I see from those gifs is that Silva has a VERY weak chin. Seriously, that was the weakest KO punch I've ever seen thrown. It makes Rich Franklin's baby punch KO of Old man Lidell look pulverizing in comparison.

I know this definitely isn't the place for it..... But that punch from Franklin should NOT have knocked Liddell out!! It still pisses me off!! Carry on.....

 

[Chicagoluciano]

If you really watch the fight, you see Anderson begin clowning after Weidmans failed takedown attempt in the first. Weidman lookes brilliant because he was the only one fighting since Anderson was clowning. Anderson saw he had no trouble stopping Weidmans takedowns. Weidman was breathing through his mouth and looked gassed after the successful takedown in the first round.

Again, Weidman only looked good because Anderson started clowning because he was overconfident and he felt he could finish him any time. Anderson stopped fighting at this point.

Stop the silliness about how much greater Weidman is. Anderson was putting on a show for all the celebs who were there to see HIM! Including his idol Rjj.

That was about the best you will see out of Weidman.
THAT WAS NOT THE BEST SILVA!!!!!!
Silva will destroy him in the rematch an deep down, Weidman knows this too.

Stop with the Weidman fantasies. He is good but he is not great. Anderson is great and you will be reminded how much so in the rematch.

 

[Ch0sen0ne]

I am not usually one to complain, but I am not reading that wall of text.

I will say that Anderson's "clowning" is basically his TD defense mode. He keeps his hands low to open up counterstrikes and to have the underhooks ready to defend a takedown.

People who think that is simply him try to goad his opponent (which he is also doing, but not exclusively) aren't paying attention.

Only hardcore Silva fans equate his "clowning" to "messing around"

Silva's clowning is tactical and done to achieve a goal. He's not just fooling around out of arrogance

 

[a guy]

Only hardcore Silva fans equate his "clowning" to "messing around"

Silva's clowning is tactical and done to achieve a goal. He's not just fooling around out of arrogance

For the most part, yes. Though a lot of people don't seem to realize this. Then some of the ones that do fail to understand why his clowning was taken to an extreme against Weidman. It's because it wasn't working, so he had to take it to another level when Weidman wouldn't lead with anything that would leave openings and Silva couldn't do damage with any of his attacks (if they landed) when he tried.

 

[LikeItIs]

Between this thread and the Jack Slack analysis, it's nice to see some actual professional analysis of what happened.

Thanks for this TS, good read.

Here's the other thread for reference:

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f2/me-jack-slack-show-how-weidman-won-fight-how-silva-did-not-lose-2505907/

 

[Idioso]

While the backhand might not have been planned it was something that they practiced in one way, your first gif shows it best. The way they setup the jab to lead into another strike by just getting him thinking about a slow punch then leading in behind with movement and the next solid straight. The same applies to the backhand that took him from a poor position to getting his lead leg in between silvas for the KO blow.

 

[Doodles]

This is the single best thing that ever happened in the Octagon. I'll never get bored of watching a bully getting humiliated, live in front of millions of people.

 

[a guy]

While the backhand might not have been planned it was something that they practiced in one way, your first gif shows it best. The way they setup the jab to lead into another strike by just getting him thinking about a slow punch then leading in behind with movement and the next solid straight. The same applies to the backhand that took him from a poor position to getting his lead leg in between silvas for the KO blow.

That's an interesting point, I never made that connection. Good stuff

 

[mikenason]

So much analysis making it seem like fighters have some kind of instructions they have to follow in order to exploit their game. They're fighting, they throw punches and defend themselves, there's no need to decipher every single move that happens.

 

[bhp02]

Alright, there's a lot of nonsense talk about Weidman's knockout of Silva so I'm gonna do a little explaining of why Weidman deserves a LOT more credit than he's getting from most people. First thing's first, Silva was clowning because Weidman wasn't giving him anything to work with. Silva doesn't look spectacular striking unless he gets opponents to overcommit in the standup or otherwise get out of position. This is common knowledge. What Weidman did was take him down immediately and show that he could land some serious shots on the ground and refused to be controlled in Silva's body triangle in closed guard. When they got up, Chris stayed in range and tracked Silva. He stayed in his face and gave him no openings. As a result, Anderson had to taunt more and more and even attack first to try to get Weidman coming at him. When Weidman did attack, it was with one or two shots that left very little openings and were impossible to time because he had no rhythm. However, Weidman was able to time Silva's footwork.

For example, in this gif, Weidman connects with a right hand. But notice how Anderson moves when it happens. Silva is very fond of pivoting to move his head and move backwards, he rarely actually moves straight back. He mostly steps his lead foot back as he does so, switching stances because it allows him to cover more distance. Weidman sees Silva baiting him with his hands on his hips. Notice that Silva's right foot is forward, meaning he will likely pivot on his left foot, moving to his own left (Weidman's right). Thus, Weidman comes forward and when he throws his right hand, he steps his right foot off to the side to cut Silva off and land the shot while also switching stances. This shows great anticipation, as it allows him to both land the shot AND angle off to his left immediately after landing. That's smart stuff.

This second gif shows the type of pressure I'm talking about. Weidman stays right in front of Silva and taunts back when Silva taunts him. When Silva attacks, he hops back a little to avoid taking damage then immediately gets back in front of Silva. Notice how Weidman is actually also baiting Silva by having his weight forward, so he can pull it back as soon as Silva attacks. He even does this by jabbing and leaning forward so that he can pull away from Silva's counter left straight in that gif.

Eventually, Weidman saw an opening left by Silva that he believed he could really exploit and even though it took 4 punches, he did it.

The short version is Weidman stayed in Silva's face while leaving him no openings, Silva did everything he could to bait Weidman into reaching, but Weidman covered enough ground and disrupted his movement to land the knockout. Here's the gif:

Two things happen immediately in that gif: 1. Weidman pivots to his left with a jab to take the picture perfect example of an inside angle and gets Silva fully square. 2. As this happens, Silva steps his left foot to the left and squats a little, making himself even more square and making himself less mobile.

At this point, I don't think anyone in the world could resist trying to punch Silva. His back is near the cage, he's completely square, his hands are down (they don't look threatening) and his head is RIGHT THERE. Weidman decides to go for it and truly commits to attacking with strikes for the first time in the fight.

He throws a jab and a hard cross right behind it that should have taken out anyone in mma who isn't Silva, but of course Silva was planning to move his head the whole time and has the skill to do it with a pivot. As the right misses, Silva's footwork has actually put him at an inside angle with Weidman in a pretty bad position. So everyone saying his footwork was off should really watch it at work in this gif. It's still beautiful. But, notice how he moves the same way he did before in the gif above when Weidman landed on him.

Weidman, in a pretty awful position, throws an improvised backhand that ended up being the key to the fight. Now a bunch of people read that great Jack Slack article (that article might even be called prophetic haha) and assumed Weidman must have been planning this his whole camp. Personally, I'm not sure. He DEFINITELY didn't plan to throw it when he started. Whether or not he trained it as a backup measure for similar situations is up for debate. I like to think that he at least understood its function when he threw it. From his knockout of Munoz and his patience in this fight, the one word I would use to describe Weidman's standup is intelligent. Maybe not technically perfect, but his last two knockouts have been really well set up and both capitalized on specific tendencies of his opponents. That leads me to believe that the backhand wasn't some desperate flail at a legend, but at the very worst a feint to deter Silva as Weidman tried to regain his balance and throw the left hook, at best an intelligently thrown shot to disrupt Silva's timing and make him move to the wrong side. Honestly, in some ways it very closely resembles a soft right hand.

As the backhand comes, Silva performs another small pivot to the other side. While this ordinarily should have caused a left hook to sail by an inch or two short, it actually lines him up in front of Weidman (though both of them have their feet way out of position) Weidman steps his left foot forward right towards Silva's center as he throws the left hook. One important thing to note is that Weidman brought his right foot with him as he threw the cross and the backhanded right, though not to the same extent as before when he switched stances, because this time he wants to unload. This actually works to give him the ability to step really far into the left hook so that he can cover the distance needed and land the fight-finishing blow. Note that at the time of contact, Weidman is at an inside angle, Silva is square, leaning over his feet, off balance and moving towards the left hook. But, if Weidman didn't fully commit, didn't bring his right foot forward, chose to attack at a less opportune time, didn't step his left foot all the way in with the left hook and didn't use the backhand to fuck everything up, Silva would have looked as untouchable as a ghost like always.

In the end, I think Weidman fought a perfect fight for what he's able to do. He forced Silva to work harder and harder to make the bait attractive enough to bite, and when Weidman bit he did it with commitment and covered enough distance with his footwork to pull off one hell of an upset.

your IQ is greater than the sum of 1000 sherdogers.
Excellent technical analysis. I am surprised to find this post on sherdog.
Thanks.

 

[bhp02]

I would bet my life Wiedman wasnt thinking that much when he laid Silva out. But interesting never the less.

It reminds me of a satiristic comic I saw recently of an artist reading a review of his work and the thought bubble says something to the effect of "so thats what I was thinking when I painted that".

your coach should have you repeat this many times, so the movements become automatic. You think alot when in training so that these kind of movements
are drilled into you like a reflex.

 

[bhp02]

looking at the exchange that knocked out silva, I think
this situation is taylor made for vitor... the boxing exchange,
vitor would get in weidman and throw some shots from inside.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

looking at the exchange that knocked out silva, I think
this situation is taylor made for vitor... the boxing exchange,
vitor would get in weidman and throw some shots from inside.

Vitor probably would have been on his back already at that point. :wink:

 

[MyPainYourGain]

Was he having success with leg kicks?

he landed like 2 or 3 of them flush and Weidman said he was timing them so he could take him down or counter, and Silva only threw them at the end of a round b/c he already lost that round so why not throw them, its common knoweledge that if you fight a wrestler and you dont have athleticism and TDD of Aldo you dont throw kicks, hell even Aldo stopped throwing them when Edgar timed them.

 

[BGDDYKWL]

Great analysis.

This is the single best thing that ever happened in the Octagon. I'll never get bored of watching a bully getting humiliated, live in front of millions of people.

I could not agree more. I could watch that gif for hours.

 

[kpt018]

The hands up vs hands down thing is really hard to talk about because it tends to fall into extremes, but there are absolutely a lot of benefits to keeping the hands low, both for defense and for offense. There are problems with it too.

Long story short, it becomes a liability only when your ability to move your feet and move your head has failed you. If you're Anderson Silva, the type of fighter who relies primarily on both types of movement for defense, your hands are actually much better off assisting your balance and facilitating your movement than creating a physical barrier. However, it ALWAYS looks like a bad idea to his opponents, so they never understand why they can't hit him.

Also, Anderson baits with bad footwork but he does all of these things while out of range. Your footwork can be godawful when your opponent can't reach you as long as you're ready to get in good positions when they can. Weidman knew how to close a lot of distance and managed to control the center so Silva had less room to move. His natural reach made it easier for him to cover ground. His doubling up on the same side, whether sloppy or not, made Silva move the wrong way. Basically, a lot of things went wrong for Silva.

You can't fault Silva for his actions. This was the same Silva that's fought every time. He reached deeper into his bag of taunts, but nothing else really changed. That style helped him become the most legendary champion we're likely to see in MMA for decades. It breaks a lot of rules of what people were taught, but that's just part of why it works.

Also, I really can't agree that dropping your hands is always an awful strategy. It's actually an excellent strategy when done properly.

Dropping your hands is always playing with fire, unless he is out of range, like in the Vitor fight.

Dropping your hands has a few benefits but its so risky that it is obviously clowning.

Jones and Weidman also know that it is clowning (Weidman calls him a disrespectful POS after the KO). Now, the clowning has purpose, but it's clowning.