Stop Equating Science With Truth

I think my favorite study was done one scientist. They gave 6 teams a study to peer review and they were told it had like 7 mistakes in it. Not one of those teams could find all the mistakes in the study. 1 team found 5. After that it really made me take a step back when it comes to all these studies and scientist. Not saying I don't believe science or anything even close to that.
 
If it turned out that a solar eclipse doesn't happen on Aug 21, you can bet people will be skeptical next time they claim there will be a solar eclipse.


Wait what?

If it turned out the solar eclipse didn't happen? A solar eclipse is not rain...
 
Wait what?

If it turned out the solar eclipse didn't happen? A solar eclipse is not rain...

What about my post would make you think I said a solar eclipse was rain? You seem very confused.
 
I think my favorite study was done one scientist. They gave 6 teams a study to peer review and they were told it had like 7 mistakes in it. Not one of those teams could find all the mistakes in the study. 1 team found 5. After that it really made me take a step back when it comes to all these studies and scientist. Not saying I don't believe science or anything even close to that.

Another thing a lot of non-scientists dont realize is that data is almost never questioned in peer review. The reviewers usually make sure your findings are consistent with your data, suggest other things for to include, and make sure your work is written without conceptual errors. Its usually just assumed that you collected your data correctly.
 
What about my post would make you think I said a solar eclipse was rain? You seem very confused.

You are equating something as basic as planetary movement with something as complex as climate dynamics for some reason. I assume in an attempt to discredit climate change as it cannot be reduced to a simple formula.
 
You are equating something as basic as planetary movement with something as complex as climate dynamics for some reason. I assume in an attempt to discredit climate change as it cannot be reduced to a simple formula.

Neil DeGrasse Tyson equated them in that tweet I was responding to.
 
If one does not think science represents human's best attempt at the truths of the natural world, I would enjoin one to provide an alternative.

this

the process of science is not infallible, and "its" claims should not be blindly accepted, but there is no better process we've developed yet for discovering truths. and its also important to note that the opinions of scientists are not the same as the opinion of science.
 
Neil DeGrasse Tyson equated them in that tweet I was responding to.

That was a very simplistic analogy by NDGT but if an eclipse didn't happen the way it was predicted don't you think it would warrant a modification of the model instead of an out right dismissal or cynicism? I'm sure there have been lots of time in the past where experimental/observational data has forced models and theories to be modified.
 
That was a very simplistic analogy by NDGT but if an eclipse didn't happen the way it was predicted don't you think it would warrant a modification of the model instead of an out right dismissal or cynicism? I'm sure there have been lots of time in the past where experimental/observational data has forced models and theories to be modified.

That's my point. Climate models are constantly having to be modified and updated because they keep missing predictions. Its ridiculous to call such a highly active and developing field "settled science".
 
That's my point. Climate models are constantly having to be modified and updated because they keep missing predictions. Its ridiculous to call such a highly active and developing field "settled science".

I think that anyone that is stating that science and especially climate science is settled is either ignorant or being hyperbolic. What I believe the majority of Climate Scientists are really saying is that the current data is pointing to man made climate change being a real phenomenon which will impact our society today and have a tremendous impact on future generations if trends do not change.
 
I think that anyone that is stating that science and especially climate science is settled is either ignorant or being hyperbolic. What I believe the majority of Climate Scientists are really saying is that the current data is pointing to man made climate change being a real phenomenon which will impact our society today and have a tremendous impact on future generations if trends do not change.

Yes, that's their claim.
Now to tie it back to the beginning of the conversation, Neil DeGrasse Tyson compared questioning that future claim, with questioning the claim that there will be a solar eclipse this month.

As you've correctly pointed out, our solar models are quite developed and accurate, and a long history of making extremely accurate predictions. If they started deviating and the eclipse didn't happen, we would have cause for concern and would reevaluate them.

Climate models don't have that same history. There are hundreds of climate models out there, and they can vary drastically in their predictions. None of them have a great track record with their predictions. For example, we have a current thread on the National Climate Assessment report, and in that report they make several claims about how much the climate will have warmed by 2040. They claim it is great cause of concern. But if we go back to that same group in 2001, and look at 2001's National Climate Assement report, you'll see they make similar predictions, only about 2020. In fact, the earth hasn't even warmed half of what they predicted back in 2001. That doesn't exactly give me a lot of confidence that their prediction for 2040 would be any better.
 
NDGT was being hyperbolic as he is much more of a cultural figure now. I just wanted some clarification, do you believe that the consensus among climate experts is that:

"The current data is pointing to man made climate change being a real phenomenon which will impact our society today and have a tremendous impact on future generations if trends do not change."

But are just weary about the extent and predicted dates?
 
DG92_gXU0AAF9bW.jpg

DG92_gVVwAAWfO4.jpg

DG92_gXUIAAlq83.jpg

DG1agwIXsAAJof4.jpg

DG7KqvNV0AEM1aP.jpg


What a time to be alive
 
If one does not think science represents human's best attempt at the truths of the natural world, I would enjoin one to provide an alternative.

You have a point, however, we must recognize the existing flaws of current scientific inquiry in order to effect urgently necessary improvements. Those who deify "science," which has taken on a broader and broader meaning, are actually impeding important progress.

For example, a significant percentage of research papers (rates differ b/w disciplines) have been proven unable to be replicated (google "replication crisis"). Obviously replication is an integral part of the scientific process and it is expected that through these efforts we find out what doesn't work (and hence are led by process of elimination if nothing else), however, not nearly enough effort/time/money is devoted to replicating research and far too many studies are going unchallenged.

Another well-known issue is the fact that scientific studies are significantly more likely to produce desired results for those who are funding the research (google "funding bias"). Another issue is what is called the "file drawer effect" in which undesirable results are simply hidden/not published (this was big with anti-depressant research).Then you have various other biases that impact every level of scientific research, even at the level of the actual scientists themselves, hence the importance of double blind study design.

Ultimately, there are very valid criticisms to made with regards to the current state of scientific inquiry, and my point is that although it is "the best we got," it is simply not good enough, particularly when shaky, unreplicated results are hijacked by media and politicians.

Personally, I would like to see efforts to mask funding sources along with open source publishing so that other scientists can review and replicate easily. Maybe create incentives at the college/graduate level for doctorate candidates to replicate. At the very least, there needs to be no hiding of funding sources and conflicts of interest so that we can at least know when an agenda may be pushing for certain outcomes.
 
I think that science has been scientifically proven over and over again to be categorically incorrect.
 
The obsession with quantifying intelligence to segregate human beings is vile and 100 percent about being a coward. It's rooted in existential anxiety over resources.


It's 2017, dog.

Don't be a pussy.
 
what exactly is Kln saying in this thread?

I haven't read anything he posted.
 
There's legitimate criticisms of unwavering faith in science, see Thomas Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolutions. Then see the unsolved problems of epistemology via Hume => Kant => Husserl => Hiedegger => and the others.
 
Back
Top