Stick with 531 or try something new?

[cincymma79]

My approach to the AMRAP is to double the Rx reps. so on 5's I aim to hit 10 and I feel like I can go more, then increase the weight and do jokers!

Advanced is probably the best pure strength building template for 531

Maybe there's an ap for it

 

[senri]

531 is good even though i never done the pogram but maybe something like it indirectly. You can modulate the program to get sort of like an undulating effect to it. It has the volune spectrum to it as well, and intense day for singles so i wouldn't change too much from it. The others in this thread who are more iron minded then i am seem to be able to have the right idea to help you.

 

[Doom Odyssey]

There will be a new 531 book coming out in a few months - September-ish. The focus I think will be integrating conditioning into strength training and clarifying misconceptions and poorly explained parts from Beyond (such as 5's PRO, Joker Sets, FSL etc).

As for what to do for now - after pushing the intensity cutting back on intensity and rebuilding is what Jim almost always recommends. His shorthand for this scheme is 5/3 - do five cycles then go back by 3 and crush rep PRs to drive your 1RM up. You seem to be at the point where many people get stuck (5-6 month mark) hence the general recommendation to take a few steps back in intensity by going back three cycles (which effectively lowers the intensity ie % of 1RM you're using).

To add to the 5 forward/3 back, Wendler has suggested the following. Fights stalls and cycles volume/intensity. 5/3/1 is standard sets/reps scheme with rep PRs.

Cycle 1: 5/3/1, FSL 5x5
Cycle 2: 5/3/1, FSL 5x5
Cycle 3: 5/3/1, FSL 5x5
Cycle 4: 5/3/1, BBB
Cycle 5: 5/3/1, BBB
Cycle 6: Repeat

 

[ROcknrollracing]

i think wendler is taking advantage of people who dont know any better by creating books and a program built for the masses when there are much more optimal programming choices.....switching every cycle from do jokers or dont do jokers...do BBB or SST or do max reps some cycles some cycles dont or sometimes push it sometimes dont....do yourself a favor and dont waste your time following a suboptimal program just because it is popular.....i have read every one of his books and even done the program and I can say without a doubt it is not optimal for almost everybody......the base program is completely sub optimal where you work up to one top set where if you look at most programs you are doing sets across for volume and if you start at the 90% of your max the average intensity is so low i will not be surprised if you go backwards on the base progam(without modifications)and just look at the deadlift in many of his recommended progams where he has you doing the exact same set and rep scheme as the squat well anyone that has lifted for a decent amount of time knows that is not going to work

 

[MMA Maine-iac]

i think wendler is taking advantage of people who dont know any better by creating books and a program built for the masses when there are much more optimal programming choices.....switching every cycle from do jokers or dont do jokers...do BBB or SST or do max reps some cycles some cycles dont or sometimes push it sometimes dont....do yourself a favor and dont waste your time following a suboptimal program just because it is popular.....i have read every one of his books and even done the program and I can say without a doubt it is not optimal for almost everybody......the base program is completely sub optimal where you work up to one top set where if you look at most programs you are doing sets across for volume and if you start at the 90% of your max the average intensity is so low i will not be surprised if you go backwards on the base progam(without modifications)and just look at the deadlift in many of his recommended progams where he has you doing the exact same set and rep scheme as the squat well anyone that has lifted for a decent amount of time knows that is not going to work

What's an optimal program in your opinion?

I tried 5/3/1. It was okay. I have the complaint most do-just not enough volume. I thought Candito's and Greyskull LP were better.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

i dont want to sell anybody anything but let me say that if you want to do 5/3/1 you could modify it with sets across and/or simply up the intensity in several ways

practical programming 3 is a very good book on how to program for different goals and really the programs in that book are full proof and "practical" every step of the way...it would be hard to fuck up those programs up

westside or westside variants are pretty damn good for mma as the max effort dynamic effort cycle is a good way to increase strength without growing out of your weight class

You could make up a program yourself and make it more optimal than the base 5/3/1 program but I have to question why one would do such a thing other than just to be different when most of the programs in the faq of this forum and the above mentioned programs have been used by hundreds and thousands of people and were developed through many years of trial and error

at any rate the greyskull is a god program as well and will definitely work but my problem with that program is why in the hell do you just amrap one set? why not just amrap all the sets? i dont get it to be honest because the reason starting strength works is because you are given an optimal rep range(heavy 5s)and the correspondent adaptation for doing that

Candito is definitely a program I would recommend in good conscious as well but doing it with a high volume of MMA training is probably going to be counterproductive with the way it is set up

If it was me I would start off with a linear progression(starting strength)and transition to a westide-ish type ordeal for mma...the reason I say that is because it allows one to work up to what one can do that day and with a high amount of mma training you may have bad days and vice versa good days

I am not saying that is the only way and anybody who says there way is the only way is just a fool or they are trying to sell something

Good luck

 

[ROcknrollracing]

the bottom line is if you are lifting at too light of an intensity like on a 5/3/1 or even greyskull for example you are getting 8-10 reps on the top set you are simply not lifting with enough intensity to drive progress. Intensity as well as volume are the drivers of progress on any strength program.

 

[Obscure Terror]

I second the above, sets across are very useful for most people in driving strength and muscle gains. Between 75-90% generally.

A good baseline squat program could be:

W1D1: 70%x3x5
W1D2: 80%x3x3
W2D1: 75%x3x5
W2D2: 85%x3x3
W3D1: 80%x3x5
W3D2: 90%x3x3
W4D1: 85%x3x5
W4D2: 95%x3x2
W5 deload around 65-75%
W6 retest max

Assistance on top of that. Similar percentages would work on bench but you would 5x5 and 5x3 instead of 3x5 and 3x3.

IME doing multiple sets of 3 and 5 with challenging weights is a great driver for progress. There's not enough volume in the "sweet spot" for 5/3/1.

 

[Genghiz]

Try the 75/85 template from Beyond 531, use a training max and volume the shit out of it. It gives you the option to work up to 10 sets. You just need to grow into the weight more, it's natural for progress to slow down like that.

Basic 531 didn't do anything for me other than regress a couple of my lifts. One top set per week for strength just wasn't enough.

Also look into Tactical Barbell, Zulu template. It'll give you higher weekly frequency and volume while keeping you in the 75/85/90-95% zone.

 

[deadshot138]

Stick with 5 3 1. I switched to something else and am now a fat weak bitch.

 

[BOWHUNTER]

Do a reset

 

[Uchi Mata]

I do my own variation of 531. At first, W531 helped me gain a decent amount of strength, but the volume was not enough.

What I do now:

Week 1- 5x5
Week 2- 5x3
Week 3- Find Max
Week 4- 5x5
Week 5- 5x3
Week 6- Deload

The last day of each week has accessory work, i.e. Weighted Dips, BSS, Floor Press, L Sits, etc.

The biggest thing that has helped me gain strength is eating more. I compete in sports with weight classes, so I just increased gradually with milk.

Try to troubleshoot your W531 before switching it up.

Not the program I use, but I too found that I needed more volume than I got with 5/3/1 to continue getting stronger past a point. The big problem with 5/3/1 IMO is that there isn't any hypertrophy work, and at some point it's a lot easier to get stronger if you get a little bigger first. I like Juggernaut 2.0 for that reason, because there is more higher volume work.