Stick with 531 or try something new?

[jshep]

I'll start with some background. Just before the beginning of the year I started a 6 week 20 rep squat routine. I started at 185 and worked up to 275 for 20. That program worked great for getting my strength back but when i tried a max squat at the end of that I could only get 335. I started 531 using 335 as the weight I based my % on.

I have been on 531 for about the last 6 months making steady progression and am up to using 405 for my % the last couple weeks I have not been getting any extra reps on the + set and have failed to reach my persicribed reps a few times. The most I have actually squatted is 375. I failed 385 yesterday. I also do not feel like I could come even close to squatting 275 for 20 reps right now.

Should I just reset 531 back down to 385 for my % and wave back up or do you think it would be a bad idea to do another 6 week 20 rep program but start with 225?

 

[NurseKnuckles]

1. 20 rep squat will not affect your 1rm very much. You will put on size and feel like a god but your 1rm will likely only budge slightly.

2. Your max on 531 is rarely ever your max. That's why you use a 90%.

2. 531 is a great program. Do you deload? Maybe try using 85% instead of 90%? Might start to give you some mojo back if you see yourself hitting the Rx reps. There is nothing wrong with just taking 385 as your max and using a %age of that weight. Stick with it, broheim...

I wouldn't give up on your program. Its rarely the program that's the issue. Try the Advanced template?

 

[Phlog]

Got nothing but good results from beyond 531 and now juggernaut 2.0. I like the rolling progression and volume of jug, suits me mentally and physically.

 

[NurseKnuckles]

Got nothing but good results from beyond 531 and now juggernaut 2.0. I like the rolling progression and volume of jug, suits me mentally and physically.

I like the auto regulation of Jugg. if you're feeling strong one phase it pushes you. if you're not then it will correspond. You always have the AMRAP to kill it if you're feeling it.

 

[fbmmofo]

Depends on your goals. 20 rep squats will make you stronger but not have a massive impact on 1 rm.

Personally I would reset the lifts you couldn't hit the reps on. Reset to 90% of a weight that you've actually hit recently. Carry on with the lifts you're still hitting the set reps.

 

[selfcritical]

I'll start with some background. Just before the beginning of the year I started a 6 week 20 rep squat routine. I started at 185 and worked up to 275 for 20. That program worked great for getting my strength back but when i tried a max squat at the end of that I could only get 335. I started 531 using 335 as the weight I based my % on.

I have been on 531 for about the last 6 months making steady progression and am up to using 405 for my % the last couple weeks I have not been getting any extra reps on the + set and have failed to reach my persicribed reps a few times. The most I have actually squatted is 375. I failed 385 yesterday. I also do not feel like I could come even close to squatting 275 for 20 reps right now.

Should I just reset 531 back down to 385 for my % and wave back up or do you think it would be a bad idea to do another 6 week 20 rep program but start with 225?

Basically deload and do a variant with more volume (First set last, pyramid, etc) working your way back up. Doing juggernaut would be another way of accomplishing the same goal. You're clearly capable of thriving under higher volume programs, you're near stalling.

So, reduce the stress, reap some of that delayed adaptation, up the volume, and then ride that wave for a bit.

 

[Phlog]

I like the auto regulation of Jugg. if you're feeling strong one phase it pushes you. if you're not then it will correspond. You always have the AMRAP to kill it if you're feeling it.

I honestly think I'll keep that for my main lifts forever. The AMRAP definitely saves it if you feel stronger and yeah, I look forward to the regulating set. Makes me try harder.

 

[selfcritical]

Samsies. Either AMRAP or back-off sets with Reps in reserve auto-reg will probably be a staple for me for the foreseaable future.

 

[NurseKnuckles]

#jugglife

 

[MandirigmaFit]

I do my own variation of 531. At first, W531 helped me gain a decent amount of strength, but the volume was not enough.

What I do now:

Week 1- 5x5
Week 2- 5x3
Week 3- Find Max
Week 4- 5x5
Week 5- 5x3
Week 6- Deload

The last day of each week has accessory work, i.e. Weighted Dips, BSS, Floor Press, L Sits, etc.

The biggest thing that has helped me gain strength is eating more. I compete in sports with weight classes, so I just increased gradually with milk.

Try to troubleshoot your W531 before switching it up.

 

[jshep]

Thanks for the input. Do any of you have a link to the juggernaut program?

 

[selfcritical]

http://www.powerliftingtowin.com/the-juggernaut-method/ an exhaustive review and video.

 

[PUO3]

I like Cube. Tend to respond better with that volume.

Granted, I dont follow it entirely strictly.

 

[selfcritical]

Cube is a little more powerlifting specific if i remember? With heavy worksets relatively often?

 

[PUO3]

Cube is a little more powerlifting specific if i remember? With heavy worksets relatively often?

Somewhat. One heavy lift day per week. I love the variance in the program, and I do quite a bit of "assistance" with it for hypertrophy purposes and because I enjoy it.

Often times will do the big 3 2x per week each as well, but not overly taxing sets on another lifts heavy day. Example, if its heavy deadlift day, sometimes Ill do lighter squats with them. Or if its heavy bench sometimes Ill do some pulls. Etc.

 

[oyaji poi]

There will be a new 531 book coming out in a few months - September-ish. The focus I think will be integrating conditioning into strength training and clarifying misconceptions and poorly explained parts from Beyond (such as 5's PRO, Joker Sets, FSL etc).

As for what to do for now - after pushing the intensity cutting back on intensity and rebuilding is what Jim almost always recommends. His shorthand for this scheme is 5/3 - do five cycles then go back by 3 and crush rep PRs to drive your 1RM up. You seem to be at the point where many people get stuck (5-6 month mark) hence the general recommendation to take a few steps back in intensity by going back three cycles (which effectively lowers the intensity ie % of 1RM you're using).

 

[LatFlare]

when i tried a max squat at the end of that I could only get 335. I started 531 using 335 as the weight I based my % on.

....

The most I have actually squatted is 375. I failed 385 yesterday.

Your initial training max should have been 300. Yours was too high so now you're stalling.

...

Your training max now should be 335.

 

[cincymma79]

1. 20 rep squat will not affect your 1rm very much. You will put on size and feel like a god but your 1rm will likely only budge slightly.

2. Your max on 531 is rarely ever your max. That's why you use a 90%.

2. 531 is a great program. Do you deload? Maybe try using 85% instead of 90%? Might start to give you some mojo back if you see yourself hitting the Rx reps. There is nothing wrong with just taking 385 as your max and using a %age of that weight. Stick with it, broheim...

I wouldn't give up on your program. Its rarely the program that's the issue. Try the Advanced template?

How's the powerlifting one? I quit 531 because of the amrap where I'm doing sets of 15. Sheiko is fun.

 

[NurseKnuckles]

How's the powerlifting one? I quit 531 because of the amrap where I'm doing sets of 15. Sheiko is fun.

My approach to the AMRAP is to double the Rx reps. so on 5's I aim to hit 10 and I feel like I can go more, then increase the weight and do jokers!

Advanced is probably the best pure strength building template for 531

 

[hotborsh]

You can try GZCL method. I ran a cycle and really liked it. It's really not a program, but more of a method for making your own program + there are some complete templates that are awesome as well.