Stephen King's The Shining (1997 mini-series, not the movie)

Since I never have and probably never will watch this miniseries - for the same reason I've never been able to actually watch 2010 or Adrian Lyne's version of Lolita or Spielberg's A.I., because I can't bear to watch someone else handle something that has Kubrick's fingerprints anywhere near it - I'd be curious to hear what you thought was wrong with Kubrick's characterization of and/or Nicholson's performance as Jack and how the miniseries marked an improvement.

It's not so much wrong as it is an entirely different take. In the movie, Jack isn't a sympathetic figure. He isn't struggling with his alcoholism and the manipulations of the Overlook. Theres no real point in Kubricks Shining where youre rooting for him to "beat" the Overlook, so his fall is much less tragic than the book and even mini series.

However by far the biggest characterization that Kubrick changed, and not for the better, was Wendy Torrance. In the movie Duvall is this mousy, submissive, screamer. Basically she's a typical horror movie female. She exists to act shocked and run and scream. In the book, and by default the TV adaptation since it follows the book, she's a much stronger and more capable female character.
 
Since I never have and probably never will watch this miniseries - for the same reason I've never been able to actually watch 2010 or Adrian Lyne's version of Lolita or Spielberg's A.I., because I can't bear to watch someone else handle something that has Kubrick's fingerprints anywhere near it - I'd be curious to hear what you thought was wrong with Kubrick's characterization of and/or Nicholson's performance as Jack and how the miniseries marked an improvement.

Steven Weber just happens to give a more layered portrayal of Jack Torrance compared to Jack Nicholson. Part of it could be attributed to the miniseries giving the characters in general more time to develop and interact together as opposed to the movie version, while another part could just be due to Weber being a better fit. I do love Jack Nicholson going bonkers, but you're pretty much waiting for that to happen because... well, it's Jack Nicholson. Steven Weber's version of the character comes off more sympathetic and endearing at times.

EDIT - Damn, Bob Gray just beat me to it. He's also got a point on how Wendy was handled.
 
I've already spoke my mind on this series in the other thread, but I will say that when I watched it, it was nice to see them actually take a crack at the Danny and Tony story. The movie really did go completely in another direction with Danny.
 
I wanted to punch that kid in the fucking face. p4p worst child actor in history. He was in "Tom and Huck" and I already hated his guts in that.... then I saw him in this and the rage returned.

320full-courtland-mead.jpg

courtland-mead-40.5.jpg
 
Bob and dawnignited: I appreciate your responses. I'll preface what I have to say here by repeating that I've never seen the miniseries and adding that I've never read the book, either. However, with reference to the film and the decisions Kubrick made:

In the movie, Jack isn't a sympathetic figure. He isn't struggling with his alcoholism and the manipulations of the Overlook. Theres no real point in Kubricks Shining where youre rooting for him to "beat" the Overlook, so his fall is much less tragic than the book and even mini series.

1) I'll concede that Kubrick's primary aim with Jack definitely wasn't to get viewers to sympathize with him. However, that's not to say that he wasn't sympathetic. Kubrick's Jack was a man at the end of his rope, a man who was not only struggling with the fact that he never became the man (or writer) he wanted to become but also with the fact that he didn't want to live the life he was living, teaching English to stupid kids and married to an ugly and obnoxious woman and father to a weird ass kid who talks to his finger. Not exactly the stuff dreams are made of. He was a man trapped by his own weaknesses/inadequacies (which are brought out and which ultimately bring him down once the hotel gets its hooks into him) and who was embittered to the point of madness. I actually do feel for Kubrick's Jack in a lot of ways, even if Kubrick was primarily concerned with sketching an other (darker) side of the coin portrait of the "perfect" American family.

2) Jack plainly was struggling with his alcoholism. He was struggling with it in the sense that he'd been maintaining his sobriety since injuring Danny and he was struggling with it in the sense that he was growing ever more resentful of his wife on whom he projected his anger and frustration in lieu of being able to use alcohol to escape from himself and his life.

From what you posted, it definitely sounds like King's Jack is more your typical film protagonist "good guy" who you're supposed to root for/side with, and it seems like the tragedy is more straightforward and Manichean. Trying to ignore the Kubrick vs King angle, I think the shades of gray added in the film make for a more complex and enthralling characterization, even if that makes it harder to identify with the character.

However by far the biggest characterization that Kubrick changed, and not for the better, was Wendy Torrance. In the movie Duvall is this mousy, submissive, screamer. Basically she's a typical horror movie female. She exists to act shocked and run and scream. In the book, and by default the TV adaptation since it follows the book, she's a much stronger and more capable female character.

Actually - and this goes to point #1 above - she exists to annoy you to the point where you're willing to sympathize with Jack and share, to whatever degree (likely not the same degree of homicidal rage but still ;)), in his irritation with her. And the fact that Jack gets destroyed while she saves Danny from him and eventually escapes with him in that snow plow thing proves that she's not a "typical horror movie female" in the derogatory sense implied.

Steven Weber just happens to give a more layered portrayal of Jack Torrance compared to Jack Nicholson.

I'm having a hard time imagining the lack of complexities and gray areas added by Kubrick leading to a more layered characterization/portrayal.

I do love Jack Nicholson going bonkers, but you're pretty much waiting for that to happen because... well, it's Jack Nicholson.

To be fair, Jack is famous today for "going bonkers" largely because of The Shining and how amazing he was in it. It's not like he spent decades before The Shining going bonkers all the time so that by the time The Shining came around it was old hat. He got famous for going bonkers largely on the strength of his performance in The Shining.
 
have not seen the series but king should be happy that kubrick improved his story massively. there were some good things in the book that were left out of the film (jacks basement research, the wasp hive, danny in the playground, more depth to holloran, jacks threats to ullman, his incident at the school), but there was a bunch of dumb shit in the book that kubrick improved imo- like the topiary, when jack chased danny, hollorans return, the boilers importance, and most importantly, the end. kings end just straight up sucked imo. kubricks was WAAAY better.
 
I thought it was a pretty weak production, which I guess you should expect from the Sci-Fi (now Scyfy) channel in 1997.

I remember thinking it was good as a kid. I think it was on fox over a couple night when it premiered.

It was ABC, actually.

I am not sure why you would make this kind of attempt at remaking a film that is widely regarded as a classic.

King himself wanted it made because of the problems he had with Kubrick's version.

TV movies were more of a thing back then, I can't remember the last big TV movie by one of the broadcast networks.

ABC just did a mini-series last year about Bernie Madoff that was pretty good.
 
Since that thread, I actually rewatched it myself. Everybody other than Miguel Ferrer is pretty weak and there's some dull and cliche-ridden writing that you'll have to get through, but the idea of the Night Flier, the investigation angle, and the legitimately awesome last act all make it worth it.

If you're already checking out '90s-era Stephen King stuff, I'd definitely recommend adding The Night Flier to your list. And, while you're at it, you could also throw in Sleepwalkers and Thinner if you haven't seen them or if you're in the mood for a rewatch. When I was a kid, all three were on HBO/Cinemax like every other day.

Cool, I'll look into them.

I forgot how much Stephen King I was watching in the '90s :D

The 90s seemed to be a big time for King adaptations. Just looking at the made-for-TV stuff alone, you had IT, The Stand, The Langoliers, The Shining, Storm of the Century and maybe a couple of others that I'm not recalling at the moment.
 
Since I never have and probably never will watch this miniseries - for the same reason I've never been able to actually watch 2010 or Adrian Lyne's version of Lolita or Spielberg's A.I., because I can't bear to watch someone else handle something that has Kubrick's fingerprints anywhere near it - I'd be curious to hear what you thought was wrong with Kubrick's characterization of and/or Nicholson's performance as Jack and how the miniseries marked an improvement.

2010 is nothing like 2001, but it's not a bad film. The two are only vaguely related at best. You have to remember that Clarke wrote several books in the series, so you're probably just cheating yourself if you refuse to watch any further adaptations because of some reverence for Kubrick.

I'd be curious to hear what you thought was wrong with Kubrick's characterization of and/or Nicholson's performance as Jack and how the miniseries marked an improvement.

I know you've gotten a few responses to this already, so let me offer you Stephen King's perspective:

King wrote Jack Torrance to have more of an arc. In the beginning of the book, and also in the beginning of the mini-series, Jack is in a fairly good place in his life. While he's still battling his demons day-by-day, he's sober and he's largely repaired his relationship with his wife and child. He's a good father who loves his family and you can really SEE that love through his words and actions. Once he gets to the Overlook, his descent into madness is slow and gradual and you can really see the change in him over time.

King felt that in Kubrick's film, however, that Nicholson seemed deranged from the beginning. And in fact, when you watch the movie, he really does. He may get crazier as the story goes on, but he already seems a little crazy even in the early scenes of the film. With Nicholson's Jack we don't see the same transformation in his character--or the character's innate goodness--that we see in King's original story or the mini-series.
 
I wanted to punch that kid in the fucking face. p4p worst child actor in history. He was in "Tom and Huck" and I already hated his guts in that.... then I saw him in this and the rage returned.

320full-courtland-mead.jpg

courtland-mead-40.5.jpg

If it makes you feel any better, he's gone on to have almost no career.
 
Actually - and this goes to point #1 above - she exists to annoy you to the point where you're willing to sympathize with Jack and share, to whatever degree (likely not the same degree of homicidal rage but still ;)), in his irritation with her. And the fact that Jack gets destroyed while she saves Danny from him and eventually escapes with him in that snow plow thing proves that she's not a "typical horror movie female" in the derogatory sense implied.

Perhaps I'm in the minority--I don't know, I haven't heard a lot of people comment on her--but I didn't find Shelley Duvall's Wendy to be irritating. I just found her to be a very meek person, but one who found some strength near the end to survive and save her son. While perhaps overly submissive, she seemed like a loving and caring wife and mother.
 
The Langoliers.


Man that movie LOL. I still vividly remember watching it as a kid. Not sure if it holds up today but I was all in.... on the edge of my seat with the long build-up, invested in the characters and actors......... wondering where this was going, what would happen next.... and then

latest



I mean I know effects were not good back then but even as a kid I remember laughing out loud. What in the fuck?
 
Man that movie LOL. I still vividly remember watching it as a kid. Not sure if it holds up today but I was all in.... on the edge of my seat with the long build-up, invested in the characters and actors......... wondering where this was going, what would happen next.... and then

latest



I mean I know effects were not good back then but even as a kid I remember laughing out loud. What in the fuck?

LOL. We were talking about this in my Storm of the Century thread about a week ago.

The effects are fucking terrible in Langoliers. They are so bad that it just kills the movie. Dead in its tracks. What was a fairly interesting, suspenseful story suddenly becomes a joke.

I remember thinking even in 1995 that the effects looked like shit.
 
LOL. We were talking about this in my Storm of the Century thread about a week ago.

The effects are fucking terrible in Langoliers. They are so bad that it just kills the movie. Dead in its tracks. What was a fairly interesting, suspenseful story suddenly becomes a joke.

I remember thinking even in 1995 that the effects looked like shit.

Yeah the whole thing comes to a screeching halt. And that is over 2 HOURS into the movie lmao.

For those who want to see what we are talking about, here is the big reveal. It's a 3 hour movie... this happens 2 hours and 10 minutes in. Over 2 hours of buildup for THIS moment.

 
Yeah the whole thing comes to a screeching halt. And that is over 2 HOURS into the movie lmao.

For those who want to see what we are talking about, here is the big reveal. It's a 3 hour movie... this happens 2 hours and 10 minutes in. Over 2 hours of buildup for THIS moment.



Pretty sure @Madmick, @scorpipede and @breadfighter are gonna want to walk down this memory lane.
 
Back
Top