SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: Week 93 Discussion - Prisoners

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Here's a quick list of all movies watched by the SMC. Or if you prefer, here's a more detailed examination.


@Caveat is up this week and he's leading the charge for our first foray into the work of Denis Villenueve.


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Our Director


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As a multiple Genie Award winner, Canadian director Denis Villeneuve was at the helm of several critically-acclaimed films, including "Maelström" (2000) and "Incendies" (2010), before he began working in Hollywood with the tense moral drama "Prisoners" (2013) and his international breakthrough film, science-fiction drama "Arrival" (2016).

A prolific director able to work in a wide variety of genres, Villeneuve was one of Francophone Canada's most compelling auteurs of his generation. Born in the southern Quebec suburb of Gentilly on October 3, 1967, Villeneuve was initially interested in science before he abandoned the laboratory and decided to pursue his love of movies.

He studied film at the Université du Québec à Montréal and began his film career in his early twenties when he was credited as director for the television documentary "La course destination monde" (1988). Two years later, he entered Radio-Canada's youth film competition "La Course Europe-Asie" in 1990 and won. These early successes allowed him to earnestly pursue more film projects, albeit small, low-budget productions.

Without any studio support, Villeneuve wrote and directed a short film titled "REW-FFD" (1994), followed by an anthology of six short films, "Cosmos" (1996), in which he directed the segment titled "Le Technetium." With a couple of short films under his belt, Villeneuve next tackled a feature. Written and directed by himself, "Un 32 août sur terre" (1998) was screened at the 1998 Cannes Film Festival, where it was received positively. Villeneuve's next full-length feature, "Maelström" (2000), built upon his previous success and showed off his burgeoning talents. Once again written and directed by Villeneuve himself, "Maelström" was a drama about a depressed, alcoholic woman who falls in love with the son of a man whom she accidentally killed in a hit-and-run. The film was widely praised on the international film festival circuit, winning directorial awards for Villeneuve from the Vancouver Film Critics Circle and the Toronto International Film Festival. "Maelström" was also recognized several times at the Genie Awards -- Canada's equivalent to the Academy Awards -- including wins for Best Motion Picture and Best Director for Villeneuve.

Nearly a decade later, the writer-director returned with the tense hostage drama "Polytechnique" (2009), based on a mass shooting that took place at a Montreal college in 1989. The Academy of Canadian Cinema and Television deemed "Polytechnique" the best Canadian film of the year, sweeping seven of the major awards at the 30th Genie Awards, including Villeneuve's second Best Director award.

Unlike the long gap between Villeneuve's first and second features, he returned the following year with the sibling drama "Incendies." Once again, he claimed the Best Director Genie award, for the second consecutive year, but the film was also recognized internationally, including an Oscar nomination for Best Foreign Language Film several more festival awards.

With his international profile at its highest point yet, Villeneuve made a pair of films in quick succession, both featuring Hollywood star Jake Gyllenhaal. "Enemy" (2013) was an erotic thriller based on Portuguese author Jose Saramago's novel The Double. The more high-profile "Prisoners" (2013) was an American-backed film co-starring Hugh Jackman and Terrence Howard as a pair of suburban neighbors whose daughters are abducted and Gyllenhaal as the detective investigating their disappearance. Both "Prisoners" and "Enemy" premiered at the 2013 Toronto International Film Festival to positive reviews.

His next film, drug war thriller "Sicario" (2015) was a major critical success that raised Villeneuve's American profile considerably. That led to his first major American studio film, the philosophical alien invasion story "Arrival" (2016) starring Amy Adams as a linguist attempting to communicate with aliens making first contact with Earth. The film scored eight Academy award nominations, including Best Picture and Best Director, but won only for Best Sound Editing.

Villeneuve immediately capitalized on the film's success by helming science fiction reboot "Blade Runner 2049" (2017), which opened to uniformly rapturous reviews from both professional critics and social media tastemakers, and is currently developing a new version of cult SF favorite "Dune."



Our Stars


Hugh Jackman: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0413168


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Jake Gyllenhaal: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0350453


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Film Overview and YouTube Videos


Premise: When Keller Dover's daughter and her friend go missing, he takes matters into his own hands as the police pursue multiple leads and the pressure mounts.

Budget: $46 million
Box Office: $122 million






Trivia
(courtesy of IMDB)​


* The first time it was submitted to the MPAA, it received an NC-17 rating, due to its tone and subject matter. The film's torture scenes were later cut by a couple of frames, along with scenes suggesting pedophilia, and it then received the R-rating.

* Jake Gyllenhaal and Denis Villeneuve had such a great time doing Enemy (2013) that Villeneuve cast him for this movie without any audition.

* Paul Dano admits to being attracted to roles of this nature (learning difficulties, screaming, nonsensical ranting) and says he draws on his own personal and private experiences to perfect these recurring roles.

* Detective Loki (played by Jake Gyllenhaal) is clearly visible in many scenes wearing a Freemasons ring on his left hand.

* The screenplay for this film was featured in the 2009 Blacklist; a list of the "most liked" unmade scripts of the year.

* Mark Wahlberg and Christian Bale were set to star, with Bryan Singer directing, but the two actors opted to make The Fighter (2010) instead.

* In this film, a detective named Loki obsessively tries to find two kidnapped children. In Norse Mythology there is a tale (Loka Táttur) where the god Loki persistently tries to protect a child from a giant named Skrymir after Odin and Hönir had tried, and given up on the task.

* The name of Alex Jones' aunt is Holly Jones. Holly Jones is also the name of a ten-year old girl who was kidnapped and murdered in Toronto in 2003.

* Hugh Jackman was attached to the project with Antoine Fuqua directing. Both dropped out. After several years in development, Jackman returned in the lead role.

* Ryan Gosling auditioned for the role of Detective Loki which later went to Jake Gyllenhaal, a frequent collaborator of director Denis Villeneuve (and a friendly professional rival of Gosling's, being that they often audition for the same roles).

* Originally, Hugh Jackman was never discovered by police at end. He would have remained a missing person, and died a la The Vanishing (1988), but this was deemed too bleak.



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Members: @shadow_priest_x @europe1 @jeicex @MusterX @Scott Parker 27 @the muntjac @Caveat @Cubo de Sangre @sickc0d3r @chickenluver
 
This movie was entertaining enough. I usually shy away from tales of child abduction but this one wasn't too uncomfortable or off-putting. Outside of the moral questions surrounding the suspect's torture I didn't take away much of a message. I did like how the film had the various characters being imprisoned at points. Was definitely getting a Vanishing vibe through the movie. That and another film I'm forgetting.

Can someone explain why the detective decides to chase daddy out of the hospital rather than going to question the little girl who escaped? Seems like that'd be the priority instead of chasing a guy just because he's leaving in a hurry. Also, why didn't the evil bitch ask dad where the abductor guy was? Wouldn't she have been concerned and known dad had something to do with his disappearance? Instead all she cares about is killing the little girl to spite the dad.
 
I think this is an exceptional movie.

Jackman's intensity is authentic. The moral dilemma of torturing a suspect for confession was chilling and you could feel and understand the tension.

I liked the complexity of the perpetrator (s).

I liked the interesting convincing red herring (s).

Jake's character was cool too.

Oh, borderline horror elements added to the overall production IMO.

9/10 movie for me. One of the best of the last 10 years.
 
This movie was entertaining enough. I usually shy away from tales of child abduction but this one wasn't too uncomfortable or off-putting. Outside of the moral questions surrounding the suspect's torture I didn't take away much of a message. I did like how the film had the various characters being imprisoned at points. Was definitely getting a Vanishing vibe through the movie. That and another film I'm forgetting.

Can someone explain why the detective decides to chase daddy out of the hospital rather than going to question the little girl who escaped? Seems like that'd be the priority instead of chasing a guy just because he's leaving in a hurry. Also, why didn't the evil bitch ask dad where the abductor guy was? Wouldn't she have been concerned and known dad had something to do with his disappearance? Instead all she cares about is killing the little girl to spite the dad.

I didn't get that feeling at all, the feeling that the movie wasn't that uncomfortable or off-putting. I was triggered about 10 times watching Prisoners. I'll get into that later.

1. The detective was trying to catch the father because he knew during the whole movie that the father was likely doing illegal shit, like abducting Alex Jones.

2. Evil bitch didn't ask where Alex Jones was because she didn't care. Alex Jones was one of the first kids she and her husband ever abducted. That was the entire triggering of the film. The father was torturing a guy who he thought abducted his child and the guy he was torturing was an abducted child.

#mindblown.
 
I didn't get that feeling at all, the feeling that the movie wasn't that uncomfortable or off-putting. I was triggered about 10 times watching Prisoners. I'll get into that later.

1. The detective was trying to catch the father because he knew during the whole movie that the father was likely doing illegal shit, like abducting Alex Jones.

2. Evil bitch didn't ask where Alex Jones was because she didn't care. Alex Jones was one of the first kids she and her husband ever abducted. That was the entire triggering of the film. The father was torturing a guy who he thought abducted his child and the guy he was torturing was an abducted child.

#mindblown.


In regards to the kids is what I'm saying. There weren't really any scenes of them being held captive nor explicit talk of what they suffered.

Sure, but how is it not top priority to talk to the rescued girl? Fact should supersede suspicion.

She cared enough to adopt the kid.
 
In regards to the kids is what I'm saying. There weren't really any scenes of them being held captive nor explicit talk of what they suffered.

Sure, but how is it not top priority to talk to the rescued girl? Fact should supersede suspicion.

She cared enough to adopt the kid.

The kid in the hospital bed wasn't going anywhere, she was in custody and would be right there. The father on the other hand was up to nefarious shit.

Her and her husband killed dozens of kids, who knows how many. The chilling thing she said was, "its what we do to war against God. We kill their kids and they lose faith." It would seem to indicate that she and her husband were some sort of Satanists or something. They were killing kids to wage war against God. Anyway, Alex was one of the first kids they abducted. I don't think she would give a shit where Alex was or wasn't.
 
The kid in the hospital bed wasn't going anywhere, she was in custody and would be right there. The father on the other hand was up to nefarious shit.

Her and her husband killed dozens of kids, who knows how many. The chilling thing she said was, "its what we do to war against God. We kill their kids and they lose faith." It would seem to indicate that she and her husband were some sort of Satanists or something. They were killing kids to wage war against God. Anyway, Alex was one of the first kids they abducted. I don't think she would give a shit where Alex was or wasn't.


No sense of urgency in finding the other girl who is known for sure to be missing? More important to chase around a guy who might have done something?

I don't think Satanists believe in God, whereas she seems to. Regardless, not giving a shit at all doesn't ring true even if she had zero care for his well-being. He still knew she was involved and could potentially spill the beans. At the very least wouldn't she be curious enough to ask?
 
In regards to the kids is what I'm saying. There weren't really any scenes of them being held captive nor explicit talk of what they suffered.

Sure, but how is it not top priority to talk to the rescued girl? Fact should supersede suspicion.

She cared enough to adopt the kid.
She abducted Alex, I believe. This was before she and her husband crystallized their war against god for losing their own child(ren), but that's not why she wasn't curious. I believe the idea was that Alex no longer lived with her; he lived in the RV on his own, in which case she wouldn't be all that surprised if he went missing for a while, nor would she care.

I can't remember whether Loki knows Alex is missing, but he goes after Dover because he's clearly an imminent threat that must be contained and his actions lead him to finding Alex.
 
She abducted Alex, I believe. This was before she and her husband crystallized their war against god for losing their own child(ren), but that's not why she wasn't curious. I believe the idea was that Alex no longer lived with her; he lived in the RV on his own, in which case she wouldn't be all that surprised if he went missing for a while, nor would she care.

I can't remember whether Loki knows Alex is missing, but he goes after Dover because he's clearly an imminent threat that must be contained and his actions lead him to finding Alex.


Gotta admit I was taking a squirt during the scene where dad attacks homie outside the courthouse. Wasn't evil mom with him at the time? And again, wouldn't she want any information she could get so as to know how best to cover her ass?

Imminent threat is debatable. But I'm listening. How is finding the second girl not the utmost priority?
 
Even though it's long as shit--why the fuck's this movie over 2 1/2 hours long?!--I think I might go back and rewatch this one tonight because I clearly missed some stuff the first time through. It's one of those movies that I was drinking heavily through and alcohol and an intricate plot rarely mix well.

But with that said, this is one of those movies that I feel is a very well-made film that I really had to struggle to get through. The subject matter, and the way its presented, is so dark that it's hard to call it an "enjoyable" watch. Pretty sure I had my teeth gritted through the whole thing, bracing myself for what fucked up thing the movie was going to throw at the audience next.

Performance-wise, I thought everyone did a great job. Jackman was super-intense, Gyllenhaal turned in one of the best performances of his career, Paul Dano really pulled off playing a weirdo and Melissa Leo proved why she is basically the female Gary Oldman. Likewise, Villeneuve's direction was on point.

I thought that Jackman's character was very interesting. He's something of a salt-of-the-earth type of guy, religious, has a strong sense of right and wrong, is trying to build a strong family, and apparently has in some way become a part of the prepper movement. He's the kind of father and husband who will defend his family at all costs and who is teaching his son to grow up to be the same kind of man.

I thought the religious themes of the film were interesting. It's a strange way to explore matters of faith, but that's what the movie is doing. When Melissa Leo's character talks about "warring against God" I was kind of surprised Villeneuve went in that direction--so overtly acknowledging that the movie is about a spiritual battle--but it added something to the film for me.

I was glad that the kids were ultimately recovered and were alive. If they had been killed then it just would've made the movie TOO bleak.

That's what I got for now, but like I said, I may go through it again tonight and then return with more in-depth thoughts.
 
Gotta admit I was taking a squirt during the scene where dad attacks homie outside the courthouse. Wasn't evil mom with him at the time? And again, wouldn't she want any information she could get so as to know how best to cover her ass?
That's a different, earlier scene.

I thought you were talking about the scene at the hospital, and then referring generally to why Evil Mom wasn't curious about Alex's current whereabouts ("Why didn't she ask Dover?" I believe was your inkling), but now I'm not sure what you're asking. She had to deal with Dover and covering HIM up; there was scant time to concoct a story, as you can see she was about to wrap things up right when Loki gets the drop on her.

Imminent threat is debatable. But I'm listening. How is finding the second girl not the utmost priority?
What's the issue with leaving the girl? She wasn't very lucid but made enough sense that triggered something very concrete in Dover, which makes him Loki's best lead in finding the second girl.
 
That's a different, earlier scene.

I thought you were talking about the scene at the hospital, and then referring generally to why Evil Mom wasn't curious about Alex's current whereabouts ("Why didn't she ask Dover?" I believe was your inkling), but now I'm not sure what you're asking. She had to deal with Dover and covering HIM up; there was scant time to concoct a story, as you can see she was about to wrap things up right when Loki gets the drop on her.


What's the issue with leaving the girl? She wasn't very lucid but made enough sense that triggered something very concrete in Dover, which makes him Loki's best lead in finding the second girl.


Yes, but it goes to show mom was involved in Alex's life to a little greater extent than not giving a fuck about him. Or she was concerned about covering her ass?

Why did Loki arrive at the hospital? Was he looking to talk to the girl or was he looking for dad? If it's the former, he abandoned his plan to try to get info to help save the 2nd girl and instead decided to chase a guy who maybe did something.
 
Even though it's long as shit--why the fuck's this movie over 2 1/2 hours long?!--I think I might go back and rewatch this one tonight because I clearly missed some stuff the first time through. It's one of those movies that I was drinking heavily through and alcohol and an intricate plot rarely mix well.

But with that said, this is one of those movies that I feel is a very well-made film that I really had to struggle to get through. The subject matter, and the way its presented, is so dark that it's hard to call it an "enjoyable" watch. Pretty sure I had my teeth gritted through the whole thing, bracing myself for what fucked up thing the movie was going to throw at the audience next.

Performance-wise, I thought everyone did a great job. Jackman was super-intense, Gyllenhaal turned in one of the best performances of his career, Paul Dano really pulled off playing a weirdo and Melissa Leo proved why she is basically the female Gary Oldman. Likewise, Villeneuve's direction was on point.

I thought that Jackman's character was very interesting. He's something of a salt-of-the-earth type of guy, religious, has a strong sense of right and wrong, is trying to build a strong family, and apparently has in some way become a part of the prepper movement. He's the kind of father and husband who will defend his family at all costs and who is teaching his son to grow up to be the same kind of man.

I thought the religious themes of the film were interesting. It's a strange way to explore matters of faith, but that's what the movie is doing. When Melissa Leo's character talks about "warring against God" I was kind of surprised Villeneuve went in that direction--so overtly acknowledging that the movie is about a spiritual battle--but it added something to the film for me.

I was glad that the kids were ultimately recovered and were alive. If they had been killed then it just would've made the movie TOO bleak.

That's what I got for now, but like I said, I may go through it again tonight and then return with more in-depth thoughts.

Watching movies is not always fun and enjoyable. That really is the rub isn't it? Schindler's is not a fun watch, that's why when I tried to get it voted in nobody would vote for it. It shows cinematic mastery but its a tough gritty, not fun watch. I really find that to be one of the greatest strengths of film is that it might be a fun and entertaining watch, or it might dick punch you and laugh. I was triggered when the dad was following Alex Jones and he saw Alex suddenly hoist the dog into the air just to watch it choke. I'm thinking yea, this mother fucker did that shit.

We are set up in that way. Alex tortures the dog then sweetly tells the dog ok lets go for a walk as he sings children's songs. So we get manipulated into thinking that Alex would absolutely kill those kids. Then later on after he is tortured we find out he was himself an abducted child. Its a messy film that leaves the father looking both good sympathetic and bad at the same time. I have a daughter, believe me, I would hook you up to a car battery if I thought you had her.

Jackman was authentic in this film and that is what bothers me most. He reveals something about my inner self that I would rather keep hidden.
 
Watching movies is not always fun and enjoyable. That really is the rub isn't it?

I find that the older I get, the more I insist that my entertainment be something that is enjoyable and something that sufficiently provides the escapism that I turn to it for.

Maybe it's because my life is kind of shitty right now, but I generally don't want to engage with something that makes me feel even more shitty. I look to movies these days to make me feel better, not worse.

This doesn't mean that every film has to be a Disney movie. I mean, you can argue that Zodiac is as dark as Prisoners, but for whatever reason Zodiac is still an enjoyable watch for me. (I suspect that's because I really get into the aspect of the investigation and enjoy watching Gyllenhaal's character run around and piece the clues together.)

If a movie is going to actively make me feel bad these days, then it better have a damn good reason for doing so. Otherwise I'm just going to be sitting there and thinking to myself that I could be watching Twister again instead.
 
Wanted to say sorry in advance for this mess but looks like a bunch of you got to it before me.

Not a whole lot I liked about it. A non-committal Se7en. Will expound later.
 
Can someone refresh my memory please? When Loki is looking through dad's house where he's got dude held prisoner, he gets a phone call and leaves. What was that phone call again?
 
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