SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: Week 77 Discussion - Halloween

Alright. I'm gonna be that guy. The little girl from Halloween 5 (and The Last Boy Scout!) grew up to be hot.
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and topless in the Rob Zombie remake.

What the hell, I'll see your random Halloween girl and raise you an Alyssa Milano.


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Yeah bro

Michael is her brother in the sequels

That is why he comes for her

Halloween 2? I think explains that

The thing is, in Halloween he doesn't even really come for her until she enters her friend's house. Why didn't he just go straight after her?

Like I said, that sounds retconned. I wonder if Carpenter was thinking that when he made the first movie.
 
Also on the RZ remake. I'm not going to completely defend it, but even as big a fan as I am of the original I enjoyed it and I understand why he took some of the angles he did with the backstory. I'm paraphrasing here, but he basically said something like this:

"You can see from that last several sequels that trotting out that old 'masked psycho stalks babysitter' thing isn't gonna cut it. We're 7 movies in now and you need to do something to move the narrative along at some point."

This is the same reason the "Thorn" angle in part 6 is somewhat defensible to me also, even if someone doesn't like it - because at least they're attempting to advance the story. What is indefensible is what they do in Resurrection.
 
The thing is, in Halloween he doesn't even really come for her until she enters her friend's house. Why didn't he just go straight after her?

Like I said, that sounds retconned. I wonder if Carpenter was thinking that when he made the first movie.

Well in the new one that is coming out that has Carpenter as producer I think, is retconning the brother and sister thing

Carpenter has said that he hated that idea and wants to make a new movie as a direct sequel to the original
 
Also on the RZ remake. I'm not going to completely defend it, but even as big a fan as I am of the original I enjoyed it and I understand why he took some of the angles he did with the backstory. I'm paraphrasing here, but he basically said something like this:

"You can see from that last several sequels that trotting out that old 'masked psycho stalks babysitter' thing isn't gonna cut it. We're 7 movies in now and you need to do something to move the narrative along at some point."

This is the same reason the "Thorn" angle in part 6 is somewhat defensible to me also, even if someone doesn't like it - because at least they're attempting to advance the story. What is indefensible is what they do in Resurrection.

I'm not really invested in the Halloween franchise at all, and like I said a few posts ago the only sequel I've seen is H20, but I understand where he's coming from there. What's the point of doing a remake if you're not going to do something that's at least somewhat different from the original?
 
Well in the new one that is coming out that has Carpenter as producer I think, is retconning the brother and sister thing

Carpenter has said that he hated that idea and wants to make a new movie as a direct sequel to the original

Interesting. So her being his sister was never his idea then.

Apparently another retcon is that Jamie Lee died in the last one? Are they just going to ignore all the films in between the first one and this new one?
 
Interesting. So her being his sister was never his idea then.

Apparently another retcon is that Jamie Lee died in the last one? Are they just going to ignore all the films in between the first one and this new one?

I think thats the plan and if it does good expect a new line of movies
 
The thing is, in Halloween he doesn't even really come for her until she enters her friend's house. Why didn't he just go straight after her?

Like I said, that sounds retconned. I wonder if Carpenter was thinking that when he made the first movie.

He wasn't. He reluctantly agreed to do the sequel and was hammering out the script but was stumped how to explain Michael's preoccupation with this one particular victim. He phoned his buddy George Lucas who mentioned to him that in his Empire Strikes Back film, he was explaining the connection between Luke and Vader as father and son. That's where he got the idea, true story.
 
He wasn't. He reluctantly agreed to do the sequel and was hammering out the script but was stumped how to explain Michael's preoccupation with this one particular victim. He phoned his buddy George Lucas who mentioned to him that in his Empire Strikes Back film, he was explaining the connection between Luke and Vader as father and son. That's where he got the idea, true story.

LOL George Lucas? Damn. That's the last dude I would think had a connection to Halloween.

Do they explain the different last names?
 
EDIT: Apparently in the sequels they reveal she's his sister.


Yeah, but you're right in that there's little explanation in the original. But hey, there's nothing really that smart about the entire franchise. I mean, at the end of part 2 he's clearly burned past the point of no return after his eyes were shot out. I guess he's regenerative. :eek:
 
Believe it or not, no. Not unless we're privy to the conversation. I say just about anything goes, because PMs can be reported just like any normal post, and if that happens (it has happened before) we go from there. Otherwise, there's no big blue brother reading what you're saying in your PMs.

Gotcha. You can, but don't unless there is a reason.

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LOL George Lucas? Damn. That's the last dude I would think had a connection to Halloween.

Do they explain the different last names?

In part 2 they explain that after Michael killed his sister Judith that Laurie (who was a baby) was put up for adoption and she took her foster parents last name (Strode).

Lucas and Carpenter were friends and worked with a lot of the same people. Check out Kurt Russell's audition tape for the Han Solo role. It's on YouTube I'm sure. Crazy alternate reality stuff. What almost was. As much as I love Kurt I think George made the right choice there.
 
Yeah, but you're right in that there's little explanation in the original. But hey, there's nothing really that smart about the entire franchise. I mean, at the end of part 2 he's clearly burned past the point of no return after his eyes were shot out. I guess he's regenerative. :eek:

That's one thing I'm not clear on--I guess since I haven't watched them all--but how does he keep coming back?

I mean, with Jason, we know that he's like a supernatural zombie or something. With Freddy, he's clearly supernatural.

But at least in the first film we're just told that Michael is a regular insane human. So how do they explain the fact that he doesn't stay dead?
 
In part 2 they explain that after Michael killed his sister Judith that Laurie (who was a baby) was put up for adoption and she took her foster parents last name (Strode).

So she was put up for adoption and then ended up living on the same street? That's convenient.

Check out Kurt Russell's audition tape for the Han Solo role. I'm sure it's on YouTube I'm sure. Crazy alternate reality stuff. What almost was. As much as I love Kurt I think George made the right choice there.

I definitely will need to track that down.
 
That's one thing I'm not clear on--I guess since I haven't watched them all--but how does he keep coming back?

I mean, with Jason, we know that he's like a supernatural zombie or something. With Freddy, he's clearly supernatural.

But at least in the first film we're just told that Michael is a regular insane human. So how do they explain that the fact that he doesn't stay dead?


This is why everything after part 2 sucks. Dude was much more scary as a regular insane human.
 
So she was put up for adoption and then ended up living on the same street? That's convenient.

Lol.. Yeah I love the franchise in spite of how fucked up it is (about five different alternate timelines and canons.) a lot of that logic is anything but bulletproof...
 
Some of you guys really nailed my thoughts though, about this being a proto-horror or really a proto-slasher film. As SPX aptly pointed out, we don't see Michael claim his first human victim for almost an hour. It's even more intriguing to me that he's credited as The Shape, and not Michael Myers or Michael or something. It makes me wonder if they thought they were going to do more of these, or if they were going to go for that anthology and make it a different villain each time so the name does not matter as much.

The villain really fascinated me in this story, because his backstory is almost nonexistent. The beginning of the movie, we see a boy kill his sister with a knife while wearing a mask and clown suit, and don't make the connection until later that the little boy grew up and turned into that killer. He killed because...he wanted to, I guess. That was all we needed. He came back to his ancestral home to kill the people who took his old house over, and that's about it. We didn't have a chance to humanize him, or rationalize his killings, or even remotely root for him. He was the ultimate evil, and his silence and indestructible nature and unstoppable force said everything. He was in a way the perfect killing machine, in that he couldn't be stopped for long, and he could do whatever he needed to do to serve that singular purpose.

It's still strange seeing Jamie Lee Curtis in this, given that for the next 20+ years she barely aged at all. Other than her grey short cropped hair, she looks way younger than she is now (which is almost 60). She was actually a teenager in this, and it's amusing to hear how her voice basically hasn't changed at all either. I guess I should ask - is True Lies Jamie Lee Curtis the GOAT Jamie Lee Curtis? Or is it Fish Called Wanda JLC? Freaky Friday JLC? Something else?

Jamie Lee Curtis and her character Laurie really brought to the forefront the concept of the Final Girl in horror films. It would be the girl that is morally pure, sometimes virginal if that comes up (as it tends to in horror movies, as the couple that gets it on tends to die early on). She overcomes everything and changes to become a different person, much stronger and usually capable of performing the "killing" blow on the villain. As we know from these series however, the killing blow is usually just the blow that stops the villain for the time being, until they can come back surprisingly for a sequel. Sometimes, they even do perform the killing blow that no villain human, dead or undead, could possibly withstand, and then the supernatural stuff or otherwise groanworthy stuff happens. Without going into spoilers, at least one Friday the 13th sequel revives the villain with some more ridiculous means. By then, the series embraced the camp and it was all over (or perhaps it had just begun...?) The sequels have a strange effect on how you view the original film, and having finally seen every Halloween sequel last year, watching Halloween again with my knowledge of the character and their relationship and other dynamics, it made this one feel almost tame.

Retcons and the series itself deserve a small amount of discussion, not a lot though given that most of you probably haven't sat through all seven sequels and the remake and its sequel as well. They really tried to put a story around this, and no I won't touch the Rob Zombie remake and its sequel, they can stay away. The main series though, suffered a great deal of transformations including the "Laurie is Michael's sister" bit as well as Laurie getting killed and then not killed, and Michael getting his head chopped off but nope that was actually a retcon as well. They found they could keep churning these things out for 5 million bucks and make 20 out of them. It's kind of like the Friday the 13th series, and I had a whole bit ready in case we got into those, but nope.

Compared to other horror films, and the bloody rival series I keep mentioning, this film was relatively tame. A little nudity, some blood and stabs, and a whole lot of tension. It wasn't about seeing the brutality, it was about anticipating what was to come. It's why SPX's trivia piece about people seeing the face of Myers and freaking out despite it being just a normal looking guy, perceiving the character as a monster and seeing his monstrous appearance, makes so much sense. We have to remember, there were other significant horror/killer movies back in 78 for sure, like Texas Chainsaw, Psycho, and Black Christmas, but they hadn't yet experienced the explosion and oversaturation of all these pictures.

This film was terrifying for its audience, because it hadn't been pummeled with graphic murder and horror that has desensitized us today. Think of the worst of the worst horror films you've seen - the Salos, Serbians, Hostels and Auditions of the world, and how if those films were aired in the late 70s, they would have been shut down. We actually have an example in the one I mentioned, Salo, or the 120 days of Sodom. I believe it was nominated in the club but didn't win - it came out in 75. It had a limited release, but people were far and wide not ready for something like that, so it tanked. If it were to have come out now, it would have been just another odd foreign language torture porn that people would have compared to the latest Eli Roth grindhouse flick.

8/10. I wouldn't go so far to say it's a classic (although it wouldn't be a stretch) but it definitely could be considered as the beginning of the golden age of horror films.
 
That's one thing I'm not clear on--I guess since I haven't watched them all--but how does he keep coming back?

I mean, with Jason, we know that he's like a supernatural zombie or something. With Freddy, he's clearly supernatural.

But at least in the first film we're just told that Michael is a regular insane human. So how do they explain the fact that he doesn't stay dead?

Other than Dr. Loomis obligatory ramblings about pure evil and inhuman qualities, there is very little explanation of Michael's "powers" until part 6 (The Curse of Michael Myers) which is the "Thorn" angle. It's a really ludicrous turn in the story and was not well received except for by a handful of franchise diehards (of which I'm one and would argue that 6 is a fun film).

http://halloweenmovie.wikia.com/wiki/Thorn

You could also say that this storyline was inspired by a speech Loomis gives about pagan druids after Michael breaks into a school in Halloween II. That's where I assume they got the idea.
 

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