Senator Kirsten Gillibrand (D) Introduces Bill: Border Patrol+ICE Must Document Every Stop

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by waiguoren, May 14, 2018.

  1. waiguoren Black Belt

    waiguoren
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    1. Would require border patrol and immigration enforcement agents to document every instance when they stop, search, or interrogate people
    2. The bill is co-sponsored by Sens. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA), Tom Udall (D-NM) and Jeff Merkley (D-OR)
    3. The law would apply to all stops by agents who work for US Customs and Border Protection (CBP) and US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE).
    4. Would need to report the time, date, and place of each stop, and the basis for questioning someone and the duration of the stop, among other detail

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...rsten-gillibrand-immigration-border-stop-bill
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    Given Gillibrand's history of violent flip-flopping on immigration, this looks a defensive maneuver for the coming Democratic primary race.

    Assuming we're talking about detailed reports for each person at each stop---it's a horrible idea, with ICE/BP already bogged down amid a spike in border apprehensions. Imagine one officer stopping a bus of 40 people because he has a reasonable suspicion that an illegal alien is on board. This bill might require him to submit 40 reports, one for each person stopped, even though he only questioned a single person.

    I'll wait to pass judgment until the bill's full text is released. I'm on board if it's just a quick write-up that won't significantly prevent ICE/CBP from doing their jobs.
     
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    Last edited: May 16, 2018
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  2. Fawlty high class trim

    Fawlty
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    Excellent idea. It's the sort of thing I would expect from conservatives, since they would ostensibly desire lots of data in order to measure a program's effectiveness, and it's a check against potential violations of constitutional rights. It's a shame that conservatives have burdened progressives with their traditional duties like this.
     
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  3. sniper Sergei Kharitonov

    sniper
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    They dont already have to do this...?

    <6>
     
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  4. Fawlty high class trim

    Fawlty
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    Fucking crazy, right?
     
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  5. ShadowRun error

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    Counter productive
     
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  6. Jack V Savage Secretary of Keepin' It Real/Nicest Guy on Sherdog

    Jack V Savage
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    Horrible idea. Law enforcement should not have any oversight. That makes it harder to terrorize the populace.
     
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    Last edited: May 15, 2018
  7. Gutter Chris Black Belt

    Gutter Chris
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    That dont seem that unreasonable really homie . What exactly is the problem here ?
     
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  8. Jack V Savage Secretary of Keepin' It Real/Nicest Guy on Sherdog

    Jack V Savage
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    The Breitbart link should tell you everything you need to know about where the OP is coming from.
     
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  9. Gutter Chris Black Belt

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    Fair enough but I kinda wanted to see what kind of genius answer he was going to give to that question
     
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  10. waiguoren Black Belt

    waiguoren
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    Not sure what this has to do with terrorizing the "populice".

    Is your view that ICE and BP are regularly terrorizing the "populice"?

    Apprehensions of illegal aliens at the border have spiked in recent months.

    [​IMG]


    To my knowledge, the text of Gillibrand's bill has not been released yet. But if BP/ICE agents will need to fill out a detailed report for every single person questioned under their "reasonable suspicion" authority, then the efficiency with which they can do their jobs will drop off a cliff. A cynic like me suspects that's the point of the bill.
     
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  11. waiguoren Black Belt

    waiguoren
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    It's coming from a poster (me) who believes in strong borders and a strong crackdown on illegal immigration. The data in the post are all accurate.

    Do you deny that there has been a spike in border apprehensions of illegal aliens in recent months?
     
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    Last edited: May 14, 2018
  12. Gutter Chris Black Belt

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    So by keeping track of what they are doing and creating a trail that can be overseen it makes them less able to do thier jobs and they should just be able to jack whoever whenever with no kinda trail ?

    That seems kind of authoritarian to me but maybe im just nuts
     
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  13. waiguoren Black Belt

    waiguoren
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    The devil is in the details.

    A typical situation which happens on a daily basis: ICE/BP stops a bus of 40 passengers for which there is "reasonable suspicion" of illegal aliens on board. Do you think it's a good idea to force the BP/ICE agent to fill out 40 detailed reports for 10 minutes of questioning? It looks like a tremendous waste of manpower.

    I agree with @Fawlty's perspective that it would be good to have more data on stops, but it appears that Gillibrand wants a detailed report for every single person on board. The cynical side of me thinks that this would be a means of preventing ICE/BP from doing their jobs, that Gillibrand knows this, and that she is pushing this as a means of getting ahead of the Democratic primary competition. It's red meat for the left-wing base.
     
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    Last edited: May 15, 2018
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  14. bobgeese Red Belt

    bobgeese
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    She is a C level politician.
     
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  15. waiguoren Black Belt

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    No, I believe in protecting civil rights and I do want records of stops. But a detailed report for every single person stopped is overkill when you often have one agent tasked with stopping a bus of 40 people.
     
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  16. Gutter Chris Black Belt

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    I think paper work is dull and horrible but yes I think its a good idea for law enforcement to have to leave a trail of what went on anytime they interact with someone. If you let people in power play fast and loose with the rules it creates an atmosphere ripe for abuse

    i can see what your cynic is saying but the optimist in me thinks its to prevent ice from being able to cut corners or go full on wild west while they are being ramped up.

    for sure I would like to see more details on what all they want to do here
     
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  17. spin_ Silver Belt

    spin_
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    "Gillibrand’s bill seeks to bring more accountability to the process. It would require the agencies to start collecting data every time officers question someone about their immigration status when they are not at an airport or border crossing."



    this would have been the exception where i wouldn't be for documenting every single stop. but its been covered.
     
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  18. waiguoren Black Belt

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    I think we're on the same page. Glad to meet another reasonable person on these forums.

    Anyone who supports or opposes this bill at this point is a tribalist.
     
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  19. waiguoren Black Belt

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    The original Vox article mentions some video-documented stops in which one or two agents have to handle a bus of perhaps 40 people (not at a border crossing or airport). The agents have "reasonable suspicion" that the bus contains illegal aliens. Requiring the agents to fill out detailed paperwork for all 40 people is not a good idea.

    I think we should wait for the full text of the bill to be released.
     
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  20. spin_ Silver Belt

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    if they question 40 people, they do paperwork for 40 people. i have no problem with it.
     
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