SBBC: What happened?

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faustian said:
@PolishHeadlock is that Rod guy always so weird or is he just drunk or something? Dude literally interprets the exact opposite of what I plainly say lol
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Lol honestly you caught me off guard as well.

I wanted to ask you for sources on the petro stuff outside of the wiki stuff because I've come across it before but it always seemed like CT stuff or weird investment articles.

Imo Rod seems pretty informed when it comes to trade but like you said in there monetary policy is not straight forward. I've kinda sorta butted heads with @therealdope On monetary policy becasue I just can't get a strong grasp on it.

When I read the wiki articles on Petrodollar I'm left thinking "is it the chicken or the egg?"

In that sense is the Petrodollar in USD because of the stability of USD or vice versa.

Honestly I think @Sir GymTanLaundry knows a lot more about this than I do
 
PolishHeadlock said:
Lol honestly you caught me off guard as well.

I wanted to ask you for sources on the petro stuff outside of the wiki stuff because I've come across it before but it always seemed like CT stuff or weird investment articles.

Imo Rod seems pretty informed when it comes to trade but like you said in there monetary policy is not straight forward. I've kinda sorta butted heads with @therealdope On monetary policy becasue I just can't get a strong grasp on it.

When I read the wiki articles on Petrodollar I'm left thinking "is it the chicken or the egg?"

In that sense is the Petrodollar in USD because of the stability of USD or vice versa.

Honestly I think @Sir GymTanLaundry knows a lot more about this than I do
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There's no question about how or why the petrodollar system exists. I've read classified documents from the World Bank discussing it and the guy I was doing the Brazil project with has held positions at both the US State Department and United Nations, and he confirms it

Regarding chicken or egg, the petrodollar was created after Nixon had to take the USD off gold. The US was on the verge of a currency crisis

If you don't trust Wiki, perhaps the International Monetary Fund will suffice:


While the total number of U.S. dollars circulating in the United States and abroad steadily grew, the U.S. gold reserves backing those dollars steadily dwindled. International financial leaders suspected that the United States would be forced either to devalue the dollar or stop redeeming dollars for gold.

The dollar problem was particularly troubling because of the mounting number of dollars held by foreign central banks and governments:

  • In 1966, foreign central banks and governments held over 14 billion U.S. dollars. The United States had $13.2 billion in gold reserves, but only $3.2 billion of that was available to cover foreign dollar holdings. The rest was needed to cover domestic holdings.
If governments and foreign central banks tried to convert even a quarter of their holdings at one time, the United States would not be able to honor its obligations.

http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/center/mm/eng/sc_sub_3.htm
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The USD wasn't worth the paper it was printed on when the Nixon Administration and Saudi Royal Family agreed to create the petrodollar system.

It's a very simple answer to your question: the petrodollar is in USDs because of the sheer force of the US military (which has only become exponentially more powerful with the unlimited military spending afforded by the petrodollar). And the stability of the USD since the mid 70s is because of the petrodollar system (and of course, the military)

Shit, without the petrodollar it's almost a certainty that the Cold War becomes an armed conflict because we wouldn't have been able to simply spend the Soviets into defeat
 
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But this Rod guy, I tell him that the US wouldn't be able to supply the world's reserve currency without the petrodollar system because of the Triffin Dilemma

Then a few posts later Rod tells me I said the petrodollar system causes the Triffin Dilimma

{<huh}
 
faustian said:
There's no question about how or why the petrodollar system exists. I've read classified documents from the World Bank discussing it and the guy I was doing the Brazil project with has held positions at both the US State Department and United Nations, and he confirms it

Regarding chicken or egg, the petrodollar was created after Nixon had to take the USD off gold. The US was on the verge of a currency crisis

If you don't trust Wiki, perhaps the International Monetary Fund will suffice:


While the total number of U.S. dollars circulating in the United States and abroad steadily grew, the U.S. gold reserves backing those dollars steadily dwindled. International financial leaders suspected that the United States would be forced either to devalue the dollar or stop redeeming dollars for gold.

The dollar problem was particularly troubling because of the mounting number of dollars held by foreign central banks and governments:

  • In 1966, foreign central banks and governments held over 14 billion U.S. dollars. The United States had $13.2 billion in gold reserves, but only $3.2 billion of that was available to cover foreign dollar holdings. The rest was needed to cover domestic holdings.
If governments and foreign central banks tried to convert even a quarter of their holdings at one time, the United States would not be able to honor its obligations.

http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/center/mm/eng/sc_sub_3.htm
​
The USD wasn't worth the paper it was printed on when the Nixon Administration and Saudi Royal Family agreed to create the petrodollar system.

It's a very simple answer to your question: the petrodollar is in USDs because of the sheer force of the US military (which has only become exponentially more powerful with the unlimited military spending afforded by the petrodollar). And the stability of the USD since the mid 70s is because of the petrodollar system (and of course, the military)

Shit, without the petrodollar it's almost a certainty that the Cold War becomes an armed conflict because we wouldn't have been able to simply spend the Soviets into defeat
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I guess I would buy the petrodollar angle more if there wasn't a decade of uncertainty followed by stagflation and the US not backing The Shah more
 
PolishHeadlock said:
I guess I would buy the petrodollar angle more if there wasn't a decade of uncertainty followed by stagflation and the US not backing The Shah more
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A few years prior to the US/Saudi agreement OPEC brutally spiked oil prices 300% as retaliation against the West for the Arab-Israeli conflict, this caused a global energy crisis and inflationary recession. Then to completely fuck the global economy, industrialized nations still had to purchase oil but when they did, the OPEC exporters had no safe investment options so they sat on the revenues, thereby removing billions of dollars from global circulation

Once the petrodollar system was established, it wasn't an instant cure for the US because a) most of the world still had USD reserves so there wasn't an immediate demand for USDs, and b) with the rest of the world in stagflation that meant less petrodollars flowing into OPEC and less USDs being recycled back to the US

So it took a while for the world to recover before the petrodollar system could really start paying dividends for the US

I'm not super familiar with the Iranian Revolution. There is this:

Mohammad Reza gradually lost support from the Shi'a clergy of Iran as well as the working class, particularly due to his strong policy of modernization, Laïcité, conflict with the traditional class of merchants known as bazaari, relations with Israel, and corruption issues surrounding himself, his family, and the ruling elite. Various additional controversial policies were enacted, including the banning of the communist Tudeh Party, and a general suppression of political dissent by Iran's intelligence agency, SAVAK. According to official statistics, Iran had as many as 2,200 political prisoners in 1978, a number which multiplied rapidly as a result of the revolution.[8]

Several other factors contributed to strong opposition to the Shah among certain groups within Iran, the most significant of which were US and UK support for his regime, clashes with Islamists and increased communist activity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Reza_Pahlavi
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And who knows, perhaps he wasn't cooperative with the petrodollar and the Iranian Revolution was actually a covert US mission orchestrated by the CIA lmao
 
Sir GymTanLaundry said:
Cornhole doesn’t get enough recognition. The amount of training those guys do is insane. Throwing bean bags into a tiny hole first try every try is not easy. Gotta be strong in the mind.
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yo8HL6q.gif
 
PolishHeadlock said:
Lol honestly you caught me off guard as well.

I wanted to ask you for sources on the petro stuff outside of the wiki stuff because I've come across it before but it always seemed like CT stuff or weird investment articles.

Imo Rod seems pretty informed when it comes to trade but like you said in there monetary policy is not straight forward. I've kinda sorta butted heads with @therealdope On monetary policy becasue I just can't get a strong grasp on it.

When I read the wiki articles on Petrodollar I'm left thinking "is it the chicken or the egg?"

In that sense is the Petrodollar in USD because of the stability of USD or vice versa.

Honestly I think @Sir GymTanLaundry knows a lot more about this than I do
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What thread you guys talking about?
 
I don't think it's a thread.
I think it's a convo they all had at the gay bath house with "Rod".
 
PolishHeadlock said:
Lol honestly you caught me off guard as well.

I wanted to ask you for sources on the petro stuff outside of the wiki stuff because I've come across it before but it always seemed like CT stuff or weird investment articles.

Imo Rod seems pretty informed when it comes to trade but like you said in there monetary policy is not straight forward. I've kinda sorta butted heads with @therealdope On monetary policy becasue I just can't get a strong grasp on it.
Click to expand...

My dad retired in 2011 and I asked him about the "petro-dollar stuff". Here are two things to dispel some of the bunk that is routinely tossed around.

1. His oil company had a provision in all of their contracts to be paid in Euros. It's been in their contracts since the Euro came into being. IIRC they had GBP prior to that.

2. His oil company relied on DOE publicly available data on supply. You can forget about big oil have some secret data that shows supply, reserves, and proven reserves, being far different than widely believed. He said that anyone can access the DOE website and read about supply, demand, drilling, reserves ... just like his company did.
 
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therealdope said:
My dad retired in 2011 and I asked him about the "petro-dollar stuff". Are are two things to dispel some of the bunk that is routinely tossed around.

1. His oil company had a provision in all of their contracts to be paid in Euros. It's been in their contracts since the Euro came into being. IIRC they had GBP prior to that.

2. His oil company relied on DOE publicly available data on supply. You can forget about big oil have some secret data that shows supply, reserves, and proven reserves, being far different than widely believed. He said that anyone can access the DOE website and read about supply, demand, drilling, reserves ... just like his company did.
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<WellThere>

They (your fathers employer) were paid in GBP or Euros because of where they were based in Europe...much like the surplus to the Russians and Norwegians would have been paid in non-USD in the last 20 years or so...it doesn't mean that petro-dollar recycling doesn't occur...
 
therealdope said:
My dad retired in 2011 and I asked him about the "petro-dollar stuff". Are are two things to dispel some of the bunk that is routinely tossed around.

1. His oil company had a provision in all of their contracts to be paid in Euros. It's been in their contracts since the Euro came into being. IIRC they had GBP prior to that.

2. His oil company relied on DOE publicly available data on supply. You can forget about big oil have some secret data that shows supply, reserves, and proven reserves, being far different than widely believed. He said that anyone can access the DOE website and read about supply, demand, drilling, reserves ... just like his company did.
Click to expand...

Was your dad's oil co a member of OPEC?
 
therealdope said:
My dad retired in 2011 and I asked him about the "petro-dollar stuff". Are are two things to dispel some of the bunk that is routinely tossed around.

1. His oil company had a provision in all of their contracts to be paid in Euros. It's been in their contracts since the Euro came into being. IIRC they had GBP prior to that.

2. His oil company relied on DOE publicly available data on supply. You can forget about big oil have some secret data that shows supply, reserves, and proven reserves, being far different than widely believed. He said that anyone can access the DOE website and read about supply, demand, drilling, reserves ... just like his company did.
Click to expand...

giphy.gif
 
faustian said:
Was your dad's oil co a member of OPEC?
Click to expand...

Aren't counties part of OPEC? He worked for Cnada's biggest oil company and ran foreign supply. IIRC most of their foreign oil came from Mexico, Venezuela, and Norway. Maybe a bit from Syria. He went to Damascus once.
 
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