Robert Harward likely to be next NSA, replacing ousted Flynn

[Makani]

He turned it down

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/robert-harward-national-security-adviser-trump-balks-235120

who's next?

You gotta think he talked to Mattis beforehand, right? I wonder which way that conversation pulled him.

 

[Rational Poster]

You gotta think he talked to Mattis beforehand, right? I wonder which way that conversation pulled him.

The problem was they wanted him to keep Flynn's staff of FOX news talking heads and Russian moles.

He told them to fuck off.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Already sounds like an improvement.

He turned it down

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/robert-harward-national-security-adviser-trump-balks-235120

who's next?

This is the problem. Anyone with any integrity and competence is not going to want to be associated with this dumpster fire administration, but they're still running the executive branch and still need good people.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

This is the problem. Anyone with any integrity and competence is not going to want to be associated with this dumpster fire administration, but they're still running the executive branch and still need good people.

That's a shame that people who could do a good job are more career-minded than patriotic. I mean, if you could do something about the dumpster fire why wouldn't you? But not everybody is going to take one for the team.

 

[Rod1]

That's a shame that people who could do a good job are more career-minded than patriotic. I mean, if you could do something about the dumpster fire why wouldn't you? But not everybody is going to take one for the team.

Depends on how much leash is given me, if they just want my reputation and not my expertise, then fuck em.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Depends on how much leash is given me, if they just want my reputation and not my expertise, then fuck em.

Sure. Or one could view it as the opportunity to have some positive influence vs. none at all.

 

[Jack V Savage]

That's a shame that people who could do a good job are more career-minded than patriotic.

That's a truly bizarre way to interpret people not taking a job that would be great for their career because they don't want to be associated with bad shit. But I gather that you have lost all sense of objectivity here and are just going to bat for your party. I mean, being honest, isn't the more-obvious interpretation literally the exact opposite of what you said?

 

[Rod1]

Sure. Or one could view it as the opportunity to have some positive influence vs. none at all.

Thats why you ask for the power to have some influence, otherwise you get your name dragged through the mud while being unable to make things better, in fact you could make them worse as people may trust you on decisions that you didnt made but are coming from you as a mouthpiece.

Basically Colin Powell.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

That's a truly bizarre way to interpret people not taking a job that would be great for their career because they don't want to be associated with bad shit. But I gather that you have lost all sense of objectivity here and are just going to bat for your party.

You should take some notes from Rod here on how to have a conversation.

Thats why you ask for the power to have some influence, otherwise you get your name dragged through the mud while being unable to make things better, in fact you could make them worse as people may trust you on decisions that you didnt make but are coming from you as a mouthpiece.

Basically Colin Powell.

At some point I have to believe people in the various positions are making some decisions on their own. They can't be running everything past Trump while he plays the role of puppet-master. I also don't believe the Trump makes every decision without any input from others. Plus, it's pretty fucking important to not have top brass all be a bunch of yes-men.

Like I said, if people think Trump is akin to the worst thing ever but don't want to get involved out of whatever feelings of self-preservation they have then that's their choice. It's also my prerogative to find it unfortunate for the rest of us and not the type of patriotism I'd hope for from people in the position to contribute at that level of government.

But hey, I'm operating under the impression that they feel Trump has potential for real destruction vs. just being whiny cunts doing their best chicken little routine. If I believed something I cared about was truly going to shit I wouldn't decline the opportunity to get involved. So maybe none of these people are anywhere near as worried as all the hyperbole would lead one to think they should be.

 

[Rod1]

At some point I have to believe people in the various positions are making some decisions on their own. They can't be running everything past Trump while he plays the role of puppet-master. I also don't believe the Trump makes every decision without any input from others. Plus, it's pretty fucking important to not have top brass all be a bunch of yes-men.

Like I said, if people think Trump is akin to the worst thing ever but don't want to get involved out of whatever feelings of self-preservation they have then that's their choice. It's also my prerogative to find it unfortunate for the rest of us and not the type of patriotism I'd hope for from people in the position to contribute at that level of government.

But hey, I'm operating under the impression that they feel Trump has potential for real destruction vs. just being whiny cunts doing their best chicken little routine. If I believed something I cared about was truly going to shit I wouldn't decline the opportunity to get involved. So maybe none of these people are anywhere near as worried as all the hyperbole would lead one to think they should be.

If they truly want you as NSA it would be natural that they would trust you to pick your own staff isnt? otherwise whats the point if they are going to force you to use Flynn staff? how can you trust someone who claims they want your expertise while putting some commissars on you as leash?

If the leaks are true, then Harwad declined because they didnt wanted him to bring his staff, they wanted him to use Flynn staff, at that point one has to consider how much do they really want you as a person as much as they want your reputation?

 

[Squall Leonhart]

Let's just make Mattis the President.

Sounds like a callback to the failing days of the Roman Empire when they'd have heads of the Praetorian Guard become Emperor.

 

[Jack V Savage]

You should take some notes from Rod here on how to have a conversation.

When someone posts the way you do, isn't that basically an advertisement that they're not interested in looking at the issue rationally?

 

[Rod1]

When someone posts the way you do, isn't that basically an advertisement that they're not interested in looking at the issue rationally?

Cubo is not a partisan hack, he is consistent with his beliefs (gun freedom, drug freedom and civil liberties), he doest tend to orbit to the conservative side due to his views on gun control, but also orbits to the left side because of his views on drugs.

He also loves to play devil's advocate.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

If they truly want you as NSA it would be natural that they would trust you to pick your own staff isnt? otherwise whats the point if they are going to force you to use Flynn staff? how can you trust someone who claims they want your expertise while putting some commissars on you as leash?

If the leaks are true, then Harwad declined because they didnt wanted him to bring his staff, they wanted him to use Flynn staff, at that point one has to consider how much do they really want you as a person as much as they want your reputation?

Again, sure. And if this was a corporate gig I'd consider your view to be about all there is to it. But since this is about leading a nation of 350 million people I believe there's more to it.

Where I work middle-management doesn't get to hire and fire whoever they want. Somehow they still take the job and even manage to influence things with their own viewpoints.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Cubo is not a partisan hack, he is consistent with his beliefs (gun freedom, drug freedom and civil liberties), he doest tend to orbit to the conservative side due to his views on gun control, but also orbits to the left side because of his views on drugs.

He also loves to play devil's advocate.

He blindly defends the GOP pretty frequently, even when they make ridiculous claims.

He used to be more of a regular right-leaner, but he's "evolved" over the past few months. Might surprise you, but even TCK used to claim to be neutral before he started claiming that Democrats were literally demons.

 

[Rod1]

Again, sure. And if this was a corporate gig I'd consider your view to be about all there is to it. But since this is about leading a nation of 350 million people I believe there's more to it.

Where I work middle-management doesn't get to hire and fire whoever they want. Somehow they still take the job and even manage to influence things with their own viewpoints.

Because corporate gigs are about one thing only and thats making money, leading a nation doesnt has a clear agenda.

So ill give you this question, do you think Colin Powell being secretary of State was ultimately a good thing or not? because for me it wasnt, his reputation was used in part to sell a war that went against the Powell doctrine ironically.

 

[Rod1]

He blindly defends the GOP pretty frequently, even when they make ridiculous claims.

He used to be more of a regular right-leaner, but he's "evolved" over the past few months. Might surprise you, but even TCK used to claim to be neutral before he started claiming that Democrats were literally demons.

TCK just found Jesus like Tom Cruise found Scientology, its not a fair comparison.

I think the point is valid, that stacking Trump administration with honorable people would sway Trump to do honorable things, i just disagree with that notion. Honorable people are often used as mouthpieces to sell dishonorable things and honorable people dont speak up, because they are honorable.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Because corporate gigs are about one thing only and thats making money, leading a nation doesnt has a clear agenda.

So ill give you this question, do you think Colin Powell being secretary of State was ultimately a good thing or not? because for me it wasnt, his reputation was used in part to sell a war that went against the Powell doctrine ironically.

Yep. So all the more important that good people involve themselves, regardless of their chances of success. Nobody in government really gets to just make whatever decisions they want. Failure and compromise are to be expected.

I really don't know shit about Powell's work history or accomplishments. I will say that any endorsement whatsoever on his part to invade Iraq is a monumental blunder and definitely not good for America.

 

[Jack V Savage]

TCK just found Jesus like Tom Cruise found Scientology, its not a fair comparison.

It's a very similar situation.

I think the point is valid, that stacking Trump administration with honorable people would sway Trump to do honorable things, i just disagree with that notion. Honorable people are often used as mouthpieces to sell dishonorable things and honorable people dont speak up, because they are honorable.

You're missing the deeper disagreement. I think most people grasp that the current administration is fundamentally different from any that has preceded it, and that's background for this whole discussion. Cubo earlier, laughably, compared Obama getting a fact wrong in a conversation with Trump sending the WH press secretary up to blatantly lie constantly. That is, he's up to the philosophical discussion you're talking about because he hackishly denies the underlying issue.

 

[Rod1]

Yep. So all the more important that good people involve themselves, regardless of their chances of success. Nobody in government really gets to just make whatever decisions they want. Failure and compromise are to be expected.

I really don't know shit about Powell's work history or accomplishments. I will say that any endorsement whatsoever on his part to invade Iraq is a monumental blunder and definitely not good for America.

In theory yes, but good people joining could also spell legitimacy to a failed administration.

As i said before Powell told Bush that Iraq was not going to be a smooth ride, he told Bush that diplomacy and international support was needed before going to war and Bush didnt listen, instead he told Powell to sell the war on Iraq in the UN.

Powell being a military man, was loyal to the office until Bush left the office.