Rickson Gracie

Two things always come to mind when I think of Rickson:

1) Everyone, including Royce, will say that Rickson can tap out Royce in about a couple minutes without really breaking a sweat, this much is obvious based on the testimony of hundreds of people. But had Rickson fought in the UFC when Royce did, could Rickson have gone thru UFC 1-4 without so much as a scratch? True Royce tired after Kimo, but that was an electrolyte issue, not a broken rib or smashed eye. People think the somewhat educated Japanese fighters Rickson beat were better than Royce’s UFC opponents, but I think Royce had some naturally tougher guys with sharper athleticism. Royce’s entries and clinching styles seemed more refined and modern compared to Rickson’s 1980’s Rio takedowns and I have watched all of their fights and challenge matches. It’s just my observation.

2) Rickson had a bad habit of burrowing his head for the takedown and at least got his head taken for a guillotine twice. I believe anyone with even high school wrestling might have given him major problems in terms of just getting things on the ground. There is no doubt on the ground he is legendary, but Royce never, ever got his head controlled by an adversary during his additional run and guys like Patrick Smith knew the guillotine and so did Shamrock. Like I said, Royce’s had a slightly better clinching game.

I’m not so quick to say Rickson would steamroll early UFC opponents. I even think Keith Hackney might have been able to KO him on a punch simply cuz Royce had problems taking him down despite being TALLER than Hackney, Rickson is way shorter and has worse defense from strikes on the feet than Royce.

Again, once on the ground, Rickson is better but that’s a given.

Great point there too..

Rickson did face a freak of nature in his rookie fight, Rei Zulu, possibly his tougher fights (dependin´ on who u ask...)

Another reason why Royce is the most difficult fighter to assess: we all know why Rorion chose him over Rickson, but why not:

1/ Royler?: more technical than Royce, but he realistically would have been over-powered by HWs

2/ Renzo?: better striking than Royce, less agile in the scrambles on the ground..

The myth around here is that Rickson´s superiority in BJJ over Royce would translate in MMA...

Now ask yourself, who could take the HW [250lb] Kimo shot on the ground and survive it, then lock a sub?

Royce should desserve more credit here, instead of these clichés about the 1st UFCs...
 
Great point there too..

Rickson did face a freak of nature in his rookie fight, Rei Zulu, possibly his tougher fights (dependin´ on who u ask...)

Another reason why Royce is the most difficult fighter to assess: we all know why Rorion chose him over Rickson, but why not:

1/ Royler?: more technical than Royce, but he realistically would have been over-powered by HWs

2/ Renzo?: better striking than Royce, less agile in the scrambles on the ground..

The myth around here is that Rickson´s superiority in BJJ over Royce would translate in MMA...

Now ask yourself, who could take the HW [250lb] Kimo shot on the ground and survive it, then lock a sub?

Royce should desserve more credit here, instead of these clichés about the 1st UFCs...

We’re on the same page.

I respect Rickson enormously and know his life in and out. His tool set was intended for opponents around 1985-1990.

Royce was younger and grew up in America since he was 19. Together with Rorion and of course Rickson’s influence, Royce had a slightly more modern look as anyone would being several years younger. That’s always the case, younger fighters have the benefit of learning more varied approaches and avoiding pitfalls. I for one don’t care if Rickson taps out Royce like a baby, Wallid choked him out in four minutes. Royce also lost in his debut black belt match in Brazil I believe, but in terms of MMA, early Royce had perfect height, flexibility, technique and best of all, he was very, very CONSERVATIVE which is why he never truly got hurt until UFC 5 when people caught up to his game.

Rickson was extremely confident but any fool can see his sparring sessions with American wrestlers challenged him, I don’t believe it was only because the wrestlers where bigger. It’s simple, good wrestlers are hard to tap and take time. Rickson could have lost against early UFC fighters IMHO.
 
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Two things always come to mind when I think of Rickson:

1) Everyone, including Royce, will say that Rickson can tap out Royce in about a couple minutes without really breaking a sweat, this much is obvious based on the testimony of hundreds of people. But had Rickson fought in the UFC when Royce did, could Rickson have gone thru UFC 1-4 without so much as a scratch? True Royce tired after Kimo, but that was an electrolyte issue, not a broken rib or smashed eye. People think the somewhat educated Japanese fighters Rickson beat were better than Royce’s UFC opponents, but I think Royce had some naturally tougher guys with sharper athleticism. Royce’s entries and clinching styles seemed more refined and modern compared to Rickson’s 1980’s Rio takedowns and I have watched all of their fights and challenge matches. It’s just my observation.

2) Rickson had a bad habit of burrowing his head for the takedown and at least got his head taken for a guillotine twice. I believe anyone with even high school wrestling might have given him major problems in terms of just getting things on the ground. There is no doubt on the ground he is legendary, but Royce never, ever got his head controlled by an adversary during his additional run and guys like Patrick Smith knew the guillotine and so did Shamrock. Like I said, Royce’s had a slightly better clinching game.

I’m not so quick to say Rickson would steamroll early UFC opponents. I even think Keith Hackney might have been able to KO him on a punch simply cuz Royce had problems taking him down despite being TALLER than Hackney, Rickson is way shorter and has worse defense from strikes on the feet than Royce.

Again, once on the ground, Rickson is better but that’s a given.


Good post. Rickson did almost get guillotined by a nobody but it could have just been overconfidence on his part. The guys Royce fought in the UFC were pretty brolic and it would have been interesting to see how Rickson would have handled their aggression and animalism.
 
We’re on the same page.

I respect Rickson enormously and know his life in and out. His tool set was intended for opponents around 1985-1990.

Royce was younger and grew up in America since he was 19. Together with Rorion and of course Rickson’s influence, Royce had a slightly more modern look as anyone would being several years younger. That’s always the case, younger fighters have the benefit of learning more varied approaches and avoiding pitfalls. I for one don’t care if Rickson taps out Royce like a baby, Wallid choked him out in four minutes. Royce also lost in his debut black belt match in Brazil I believe, but in terms of MMA, early Royce had perfect height, flexibility, technique and best of all, he was very, very CONSERVATIVE which is why he never truly got hurt until UFC 5 when people caught up to his game.

Rickson was extremely confident but any fool can see his sparring sessions with American wrestlers challenged him, I don’t believe it was only because the wrestlers where bigger. It’s simple, good wrestlers are hard to tap and take time. Rickson could have lost against early UFC fighters IMHO.
Pb is, his biggest test was his rookie fights against Rei Zulu (Funaki was a "technical" test though) since this freak was a good sign of what was about to come at openweight...

But these fights are so problematic to assess...
 
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Thanks but there’s many more who are just as if not way more knowledgeable about MMA than myself. It’s hard to sift through the shitty posts and find some real gems sometimes, but, when you read good posts that are actually informative, you find a new appreciation for whatever the subject is. It’s kinda neat.

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