Rickson Gracie: Modern BJJ Black Belts Remind Me of Karate Practitioners Clueless of Jiu-Jitsu

[Which Doctor]

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You should educate yourself by reading the accounts of what actually happened between Rickson and Schultz, and how this alleged NHB fight turned into a submission only grappling match, when at the time Mark Schultz knew nothing about submissions (and Rickson knew that). I have a lot of respect towards Rickson, but this way of challenging yourself is laughable...

Whose fault is it that Mark freekin' Schultz(!) didn't know anything about submissions? What was it? Too busy spitting on catch wrestlers from his high horse whilst being a god amonst pig farm wreslters, sorry, I mean "free/folkstyle" amateur wrestlers, LMFAO. "I tell you what boy, it's all about that hard, grinding ride, sooowieeeee!"



P.S. - Dear @youngsteinel - I'm just kidding bra. Relax and have a good day and take it easy! oink. WHAT THE F*** WAS THAT!?!

 

[TrueFightFan]

Such a reality does not exist where a prime Matt Hughes does not beat the ever living fuck out of any version of Royce.

You probably think LeBron James is the greatest basketball player ever, as well. Weak, shmoopie.

 

[TrueFightFan]

No because Hughes was a better athlete with a grappling back round. He was too strong for Gracie and was in better shape. I see your point, but using Hughes is the issue. Strong wrestlers have all the attributes to add BJJ to their games pretty seemlessly. They also have better takedowns and TDD. They have proven time and again that it is a better base than BJJ by itself. No art works stand alone consistently anymore. Cross train or lose.

That is a valid point in MMA but what, I believe, Rickson is referring to is actual fighting and the closest thing we have to compare to are the early UFC's. There is no way in hell that Matt Hughes is stronger than Dan Severn or Kimo. That is why Hughes fought at WW and not HW.

 

[BigMuffler]

I have tremendous respect for Rickson, but even in his prime, Rickson would be destroyed by today's fighter. Someone like Maia or Jacare or even Big Nog would embarrass him

Isn't Big Nog too big for him XD

 

[true_fan]

Rick is right




































if it was 95!

 

[TrueFightFan]

Put two smart fighters in an open field with no judges and the one who has the best combination of quick feet , takedown defense, and endurance wins. It could take several hours, but that's what it would come down to. Don't let your opponent get a hand on you, strip their grip if they do get close, run away, come back only when your opponent is tired. Pretty boring, but mobile armies have used this tactic for millennia with their skirmishers. You're going to have to put some sort of boundaries if you want a traditional fight (ie two guys facing off against each other). Every form of sport combat has boundaries for that reason - without them one person keeps escaping and coming back until his opponent is tired.

And even within a bounded field (say they fight on a football field instead of an open field), the problem with BJJ is its lack of takedowns. Being great on the ground is meaningless if you can't get the takedown; you currently have to mix BJJ with wrestling or judo for that.

BJJ spends 90% of its time on the ground, which is why it is so good on the ground. But if you're spending 90% of your time on the ground and 10% of your time on techniques to get the fight to the ground, you're simply not getting someone who spends 90% of his time standing grappling to the ground. The only reason things like guard pull work is because under current BJJ rules its illegal to stall by refusing to follow to the ground. Guard pulls are trivially easy to stop if you're allowed to stall; that's why judo and wrestling developed so many other kinds of takedowns.

As for Royce beating Hughes without time time limits and boundaries - did you watch the fight? He was finished on the ground. A better argument would be that Hughes studied BJJ and used it along with wrestling to beat Royce. Time limits are a non-issue when you're finished.

Kudos on a well thought out post. I agree with your assessment of what BJJ has become and I think Rickson does as well. BJJ has become watered down because of its incorporation into MMA. How was Gracie able to take Kimo or Severn down and submit them? As for Hughes, with rules, gloves and time limits, he has a better chance to win but lets not pretend that he was fighting a prime Gracie. That was straight brute strength from a younger fighter overtaking an older fighter in an MMA rules fight. I don't, for one second, believe that Hughes is stronger than Severn or Kimo and Gracie managed to handle both in a limited rules bout. One small example in regards to Hughes is his second GSP fight. He gets grazed in the cup and drops like a rock. Do you remember the original UFC's allowed the groin strike? So the game has changed drastically and I think that is what Rickson is referring to. The BJJ that they created was not meant for sport but meant for actual fighting.

 

[TrueFightFan]

How would Hughes have lost? by breaking the other guy arm before making him a punching bag until the ref stops the fight? Also, the Saku fight was with special rules set by, guess who?, yes, the Gracie!

And the fact that he talks about bjj and not mma, makes no difference. How many Gracie jj are winning the ADCCC?

If he is complaining about the fake black belts, which you get in a McDojo, he is right. But the quote is too short to know what is he talking about specifically, and it sounds like a smart-ass, as he used back in the day.

Gracie Jiu Jitsu was not a form of "sport". It was a fighting style. You can't truly test your discipline in a rules heavy competition. Your references to Hughes, Sakuraba and the World Tournament are indicative of this. No strikes are allowed in the tournament and Sakuraba and Hughes were protected by plenty of rules that would not have been available to them in the original UFC'S. That Gracie was able to handle Shamrock, Severn and Kimo also shows that Hughes just faced an aging fighter. Is normal because I don't believe that anyone would argue that Hughes was stronger than those three.

 

[TrueFightFan]

Rickson lost a lot of his "vale tudo/fighting" credit when it was revealed that his two most famous fights (with Zulu) had "special rules" that the Gracies didn't disclose to the public. (which the Gracies are NOTORIOUS for; just like they attempted with the Royler/Bravo rematch). Zulu wasn't allowed to punch Rickson with a closed fist or kick/stomp him on the ground; Zulu's MAIN "strengths". Sorry but they all need to be called out for their bullshit. (Renzo gets a pass though, he was always down to fight and took his losses like a fucking man)

How do you know this? Do tell.

 

[The Schmoop]

You probably think LeBron James is the greatest basketball player ever, as well. Weak, shmoopie.

I hate LeBron and basketball in general. Any sport where it is advantageous to make it appear that your opponent has hurt you more than they did is too bitch ass for my liking.

 

[I Am Legion]

Gracie Jiu Jitsu was not a form of "sport". It was a fighting style. You can't truly test your discipline in a rules heavy competition. Your references to Hughes, Sakuraba and the World Tournament are indicative of this. No strikes are allowed in the tournament and Sakuraba and Hughes were protected by plenty of rules that would not have been available to them in the original UFC'S. That Gracie was able to handle Shamrock, Severn and Kimo also shows that Hughes just faced an aging fighter. Is normal because I don't believe that anyone would argue that Hughes was stronger than those three.

Or it shows a wrestler that trained BJJ. That's something most guys have now, that they didn't then. Those early UFCs were style vs style. Hughes was very good at subs, chokes, armbars etc as well as defense.

 

[Law Dog]

Cool story Mr. Rickson.

I wonder why you did not show Royce how to outgrapple Matt Hughes.

<45>

 

[Local Plata]

I don't know why people are taking this to mean he's shitting on MMA or something. He's saying when he does seminars, he sees black belts in BJJ that are clueless about BJJ ... this has nothing to do with MMA or Hughes/Royce or anything, he's saying BBs these days arent BB quality.

 

[TrueFightFan]

Or it shows a wrestler that trained BJJ. That's something most guys have now, that they didn't then. Those early UFCs were style vs style. Hughes was very good at subs, chokes, armbars etc as well as defense.

When Hughes faced a Jiu Jitsu ace, who was his age, he got dismissed rather quickly. It wasn't even close. That you are basing your opinion of Gracie on his fight with Hughes makes me wonder if Trevor Berbick is your boxing GOAT choice.

 

[TrueFightFan]

<45>

Trevor Berbick - The true Boxing GOAT..
Right?

 

[I Am Legion]

When Hughes faced a Jiu Jitsu ace, who was his age, he got dismissed rather quickly. It wasn't even close. That you are basing your opinion of Gracie on his fight with Hughes makes me wonder if Trevor Berbick is your boxing GOAT choice.

Are you insane? He has sub wins over some great names....did you ever even watch him? Did you see what he did to Trigg? GSP? What he did to Renzo Gracies Almeida? He had 15 sub wins and had them mixed in all throughout his career. If by Ace you mean BJ, well he has a win vs him as well and had BJ in a terrible spot.

 

[TheAmericanGazelle]

Rickson is correct in spirit about the delinking of martial art BJJ with sport BJJ and he's exactly who everyone says he is within the martial art of BJJ.

In linking BJJ to MMA, he can make some unsound statements out of vanity. That doesn't make his abilities or insight in BJJ moot. Sometimes good and bad ideas can exist in the same person.

It is slightly hilarious to see some people in this thread trash his BJJ, like they've trained or even have the foggiest idea what the fuck they are talking about.

 

[CRuck1980]

seeing how ppl buy their black belts nowadays I don't see anything wrong with what he's saying of course the shit is going to get watered down when you have black belts handing them out like candy. Fucking Roan Carneiro got triangled by a purple belt in Kevin Burns how the fuck is he a black belt.

tbf it wasn't a grappling competition

 

[Spaghetta]

Certainly depends on where you go. I think making a generalization like that is harmful to BJJ more than anything.

 

[CrimsonFan]

Gracie BJJ is great until you can defend it. Then back to punching in the face and wrestling. Those Brazilian wizards certainly deserve credit they get for upstaging everything but now are largely irreverent. Will we ever see another Gracie in UFC? Doubt it.

What about Kron? Hes a high level fighter and improving

Hes good enough to be in the ufc

 

[Bamboozled]

Cool story Mr. Rickson.

I wonder why you did not show Royce how to outgrapple Matt Hughes.

Because Matt Hughes is your average black belt and not a freak of nature.

Royce was never even the best gracie, and not close to it.