Rickson Gracie: Modern BJJ Black Belts Remind Me of Karate Practitioners Clueless of Jiu-Jitsu

[cambo78]

I don't believe it, no way. It's a salty Zulu excuse, Gracie's fought for decades with fewer rules than any style, sport or organization, I call BS. Rickson was so good it looked like Zulu couldn't punch him because, technically be wasn't capable of it. Rickson went from to state to state and challenged anyone and everyone he could find until it became a professional sport and he held out for top paydays but he was head and shoulders above those who claim now they could have beaten him in the 90's. Nope, he was the man.

Watch the fights. It's obvious. Zulu never tried to "punch, elbow or soccer kick/stomp" Rickson in both (even while Zulu was in Rickson's guard). Granted, it's Zulu's fault for accepting those rules (which he did a few times against smaller opponents) but neither of those fights were REAL "vale tudo" fights. And the other video was about the "vale tudo /mma" difference in Brazil and the interviewer brought it up, not Zuluzinho. The Gracies have ALWAYS tried to use "special rules" in vale tudo/mma against tough opponents (even in grappling). This is WELL known.

 

[nhbfan8080]

That fight ALSO had "special rules" [no knees or elbows standing or on the ground] plus Funaki was already one dimensional. Rickson avoided "complete fighters" one way or another.

No, the rules in the Funaki match was no headbutts and elbows, just like Pride rules. Both Rickson and Funaki threw knees in the match.

You're taking his comments out of context about what he said 20yrs ago about MMA and BJJ today.

 

[cambo78]

No, the rules in the Funaki match was no headbutts and elbows, just like Pride rules. Both Rickson and Funaki threw knees in the match.

You're taking his comments out of context about what he said 20yrs ago about MMA and BJJ today.

I was meaning "Rickson ALSO wanted special rules to fight Funaki (no knees to the head or body standing or on the ground) which he did. They compromised so there were no knees/kicks allowed to the head on the ground. And what exactly am I "taking out of context"?. If you're talking about the original "quote" in the title, I've answered that here.

kind of amazing how many people here took this completely out of context

I watched the entire attached video (which I'm assuming others on here did also) before posting and it's "typical Rickson" .... "If you show me the toughest guy in MMA, I'd STILL have to teach him self defense". I can't speak for everyone else but my comments are pertaining to the whole video, not just that one quote taken from the video.

 

[Bartinho]

Watch the fights. It's obvious. Zulu never tried to "punch, elbow or soccer kick/stomp" Rickson in both (even while Zulu was in Rickson's guard). Granted, it's Zulu's fault for accepting those rules (which he did a few times against smaller opponents) but neither of those fights were REAL "vale tudo" fights. And the other video was about the "vale tudo /mma" difference in Brazil and the interviewer brought it up, not Zuluzinho. The Gracies have ALWAYS tried to use "special rules" in vale tudo/mma against tough opponents (even in grappling). This is WELL known.

That's a ridiculous statement, considering the fact they were the ONLY people doing vale tudo! It was unheard of prior to that, nothing else in the day was style vs style and every other sport had gloves, rounds and 10-20 rules. Current MMA rules would never have passed for vale tudo, learn some fight history.

 

[The Schmoop]

Burger king says McDonald's burgers suck. Cool story, Ricky.

 

[Bartinho]

Rickson came to Utah in 1991 and looked for a vale tudo fight with the toughest guy in Utah. He went to BYU and challenged Mark Schultz. Mark asked him what the rules were and Rickson said, "Don't have any." They issued a fight challenge to the world, on tv, in magazines, everywhere. And people accepted the challenge at Gracie schools for years, including our school, Pedro Sauer team in Utah. The Gracie Challenge was well documented on video, but apparently, seeing ISN'T believing if you just want to be a denier.

 

[pamirec]

Fucking Roan Carneiro got triangled by a purple belt in Kevin Burns how the fuck is he a black belt.

A black belt getting subbed by lower ranked belt in MMA is not a crazy thing.

 

[IloveTHIS]

Sounds like a braggart

 

[The Schmoop]

Are we at Sherdog, such morons that we can't understand the quote? He is not talking about MMA as a sport, he is talking about Jiu Jitsu as a fighting style. To many, as you've just pointed out, it has become only a part of the "ring" with rounds and rules. "What about Hughes", "What about Sakuraba", we ask, but place them in an open field with no time limits or judges and things change tremendously. You may find the action boring but the results may surprise you. Two of the greatest fights I have ever seen would never have occurred or may have had different results under the new rules: Gracie vs Kimo and Gracie vs Severn. Under the new rules, I believe both fighters would have "Matt Hughes-ed" Gracie but under the old rules Gracie would have beaten Hughes. Show some respect and don't rush to elite levels of Shertardedness just because a Gracie speaks out every once in a while.

Such a reality does not exist where a prime Matt Hughes does not beat the ever living fuck out of any version of Royce.

 

[tenniswhiz]

Maybe your reading comprehension skills are terrible. Unless sarcasm, then <3

I’m sorry, had a couple glasses of wine before I posted that.

 

[Taric]

I don't believe it, no way. It's a salty Zulu excuse, Gracie's fought for decades with fewer rules than any style, sport or organization, I call BS. Rickson was so good it looked like Zulu couldn't punch him because, technically be wasn't capable of it. Rickson went from to state to state and challenged anyone and everyone he could find until it became a professional sport and he held out for top paydays but he was head and shoulders above those who claim now they could have beaten him in the 90's. Nope, he was the man.

Rickson demanded special rules against Funaki. No elbows, knees, etc. Fight was almost cancelled because of it.
Rickson was an amazing BJJ talent, but he was also a diva.

 

[Better Every Day]

His point is that the self-defense aspects of these martial arts should not be lost because teachers concentrate exclusively on sports applications. In fighting sports, many effective attacks are forbidden by rules, so a sport practitioner doesn't need to know how to defend such attacks to be good at the sport. But in a real fight, there are no rules and no referee. One needs to know how to defend against eye-gouging, ear-ripping, biting, groin-attacks, attacks against fingers, attacks to the back of the head, etc. Otherwise the self-defense aspect of the art is seriously compromised.

 

[Son of Werdum]

Damn it' bad when renzo' has most sportsmanship

My first memory of seeing Renzo fight was him stomping on the back of Ben Spijkers neck after the fight was over.

 

[AimedWithV]

what analysis are you talking about ?

your troll comment ? You actually think most of the keyboard warriors in this thread are "usng their brains"? I "bash" others when they don't know shit

Rickson is right and most people are missing the point and taking him out of context, using it as an excuse to attack the gracies

Rickson isn't even like the other gracies.. he is the least dogmatic/ most open minded. Kron even more so

You say this shit to everyone. Project more you fat fuck. You're wrong here, move along

LOL @Calling flat earther Kron "less dogmatic".

I'm right and you're wrong. You cannot prove anything, because all you can say is supposed to be based on your imaginary experience.
Now crawl back to the hole you came from, slime.

 

[nhbfan8080]

I was meaning "Rickson ALSO wanted special rules to fight Funaki (no knees to the head or body standing or on the ground) which he did. They compromised so there were no knees/kicks allowed to the head on the ground. And what exactly am I "taking out of context"?. If you're talking about the original "quote" in the title, I've answered that here.
.....
I watched the entire attached video (which I'm assuming others on here did also) before posting and it's "typical Rickson" .... "If you show me the toughest guy in MMA, I'd STILL have to teach him self defense". I can't speak for everyone else but my comments are pertaining to the whole video, not just that one quote taken from the video.

The Gracies used to prefer no rounds, no ref stop, no restrictions on striking(groin, heel kicks etc) but the restrictions that Rickson wanted were the opposite of the old 'Gracie rules' but was more similar to current MMA rules which made the match more technical which was why Funaki didn't have a problem with the compromise rules in the end. Funaki said after the match that the rules were fine with him and didn't complain afterwards that it affected the match by cramping his style.

Rickson is talking about self defense is different from MMA and 'sport bjj' so you've jumped the gun here. He has been talking alot about current problems in BJJ which he repeats in this video. He wasn't bashing other arts here.

 

[listrahtes]

Damn it' bad when renzo' has most sportsmanship

Renzo is a complete headcase but that is true. He is also the best MMA fighter out of Gracie family by a mile with Royler being the best BJJer (if Roger does not count). I dont really get how people are surprised about Rickson. He was always a big fat shit talker without backing it up. As soon as competition got legit in MMA and especially in BJJ (people tend to forget it) he stopped participating to work on his fairy tales behind closed doors.

Someone like Fabio Gurgel achieved much more than Rickson but as he faced legit opponents has some losses. Even when Rickson first came to the USA he had "special rules" for his fights. Just read about him sparring Mark Schultz. Schultz was not allowed to suplex or strike Rickson. Basically they negated every possible threat with him as he did not knew submissions. Then Schultz dominated a butt scooting Rickson with control until he gassed out . Would that have been a MMA fight RIckson would have gotten pounded into oblivion.

Rickson never was this crazy dominating BB. He was muscular compared to his brothers and a good BB for his time but thats it. Everything else is brand building like a classic TMA Wing Chun "master"..etc.: Hide and talk

 

[Dragin'Don]

he's right thought. modern sport bjj is definitely evolving away from real fighting.

This is True

 

[cambo78]

That's a ridiculous statement, considering the fact they were the ONLY people doing vale tudo! It was unheard of prior to that, nothing else in the day was style vs style and every other sport had gloves, rounds and 10-20 rules. Current MMA rules would never have passed for vale tudo, learn some fight history.

What in the hell are you talking about? "Pankration" fights have been around for MILLENNIA and NHB fights were taking place since the late 1800's. Brazilians just POPULARIZED it. And the ORIGINAL BRAZILIAN vale tudo fights were ENTIRELY about "style vs style". Helio Gracie STARTED the entire "Gracie special rules" fiasco with Kimura.

https://www.bjjee.com/articles/my-judo-by-masahiko-kimura-his-story-vision-in-his-own-words-part-2/
"The rule of the bout was different from that of judo or pro wrestling. The winner was decided by submission only"

"The match was contested under what Hélio called the jiu-jitsu rule. They would fight in a gi, with all sorts of grappling moves allowed and the winner decided by submission or TKO only. The match was set for three ten minute rounds"

 

[Rea_ctor]

I agree have you seen the state of some if the supposed black belts in MMA.

 

[arkinso]

Rickson came to Utah in 1991 and looked for a vale tudo fight with the toughest guy in Utah. He went to BYU and challenged Mark Schultz. Mark asked him what the rules were and Rickson said, "Don't have any." They issued a fight challenge to the world, on tv, in magazines, everywhere. And people accepted the challenge at Gracie schools for years, including our school, Pedro Sauer team in Utah. The Gracie Challenge was well documented on video, but apparently, seeing ISN'T believing if you just want to be a denier.

You should educate yourself by reading the accounts of what actually happened between Rickson and Schultz, and how this alleged NHB fight turned into a submission only grappling match, when at the time Mark Schultz knew nothing about submissions (and Rickson knew that). I have a lot of respect towards Rickson, but this way of challenging yourself is laughable...