Raymond Daniels is important for the sport

Discussion in 'Muay Thai and Kickboxing' started by Dessyboy, Oct 8, 2017.

  1. Dessyboy Blue Belt

    Dessyboy
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    With his point fighting background, he really gives the sport a different look

    How Raymond fights is NOT the best or most efficient way to fight kickboxing rules, anyone in the sport knows that

    He can compete purely because he is that good with his legs and has been doing it for probably close to 30 years.

    You can't comprehend how hard it is to compete and keep at bay the top MT/Kickboxers fighting the way Raymond does.

    Raymond's hands have improved a bit but they will never be more than a distraction, purely because of all of those years of point fighting.

    I will never say Raymond is the best, it is nice he has gotten some recognition late in his career with the Bellator belt. If we get another couple of years of entertainment from him, i'll be happy

    It would be like someone competing with the top tennis players today using only a slice backhand.
     
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  2. Cocakillbana Black Belt

    Cocakillbana
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    He doesn't do that

    He's a combined 0-3 (all by TKO/KO) against the two best fighters he's faced.

    So, if Valtellini and and Holzlen represent top tennis players, Daniels has lost in straight sets each time.
     
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  3. Yodsanan มวยไทย

    Yodsanan
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    Bellator has belts?:eek:
     
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  4. JimGunn Red Belt

    JimGunn
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    Denise Kielholtz is their women's flyweight champion and she's on every list I have seen as one of the best women's kickboxers in the world.

    Raymond Daniels defeated Karim Ghajji who is a very experienced kickboxer to get the welterweight belt at their most recent card.

    Kevin Ross defeated Domenico Lomurno to take the inaugural featherweight belt at that same most recent card.

    Giorgio Petrosyan is scheduled to compete against former Lumpinee stadium champion Yodwicha Por Boonsit for the inaugural lightweight belt in December.

    Bellator Kickboxing haters may soon be in the unenviable position of having to admit that at least a couple of their champions are competitive with and capable of beating the very best in the world. :p
     
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  5. Snubnoze707 High Level

    Snubnoze707
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    @JimGunn has been anointed as a US Kickboxing White Knight...
     
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  6. Shadess Brown Belt

    Shadess
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    xyz's opponents in BellaKB so far

    Raymond Daniels:
    Francesco Moricca (ITA)
    Stefano Bruno (ITA)
    Zsolt Benedek (HUN)
    Csaba Gyorfi (HUN)
    Karin Ghajji (FRA)

    Kevin Ross:
    Matteo Taccini (ITA)
    Justin Houghton (USA)
    Alessio Arduini (ITA)
    Domenico Lomurno (ITA)

    Denise Kielholtz:
    Veronica Vernocchi (ITA)
    Gloria Peritore x2 (ITA)
    Renata Lantos (HUN)
    Martine Michieletto (ITA)

    There's like one name in there who really had any business fighting against these people. BellaKB is mostly zzzZZzzzzZZz and the only possible upside to it is that it's named Bellator and maybe it'll have time to develop into something before someone at Viacom figures out they're wasting money on it.

    Maybe a little harsh but...
    Just checked all the weekends they've had shows so far and not on one of them would they have been THE show that weekend. BellaKB 3 weekend I would've literally watched 6 other events before the Bellator one...not that you could really watch it very easily.

    Think they've managed like 1 good match up per every 2 cards on average.

    You'd have to be beyond Broadcasts blinders on Romania fanaticism to think much of BellaKB so far. There's better kickboxing on all the time.
     
    #6
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
  7. tru3f4n Black Belt

    tru3f4n
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    Scott Coker is just making Raymond Daniels his new Cung Le which will include padding of his record I thought the WCL was a joke so never gave a shit about him in that org either.
     
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  8. JimGunn Red Belt

    JimGunn
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    I'm sure you meant the impersonal and generic "you" Shadess, but in my case Bellator Kickboxing is super easy to watch at least, the unnecessary tape delays notwithstanding. It's on tv on Spike in HD in the U.S.. One doesn't have to think it's the greatest kickboxing promotion in the world to just enjoy it for what it is- a four cards per year offshoot of Bellator MMA, that has several good fighters and sometimes fun fights.
     
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  9. ichibang Brown Belt

    ichibang
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    Coker's bread and buttrr business model has always been setting up favorable match ups to build stars.

    He does really badly once he strays away from that model e.g. Fedor, Strikeforce HW GP, attempting to legitimize SF champions by bringing chsmpions from Dream.
     
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  10. tru3f4n Black Belt

    tru3f4n
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    you mean like bringing in MMA fighters to fight Cung Le under Sanshou rules then bringing in those same guys to fight him in MMA?
     
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  11. Yodsanan มวยไทย

    Yodsanan
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    having 1 decent fighter in every weight class seems to be a great concept. :rolleyes:
     
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  12. Julius_Caesar Brown Belt

    Julius_Caesar
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    Why do I keep hearing about this Raymond Daniels? What's so appealing about him to the casual kb fans? The guys had like 15 pro kb fights.
     
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  13. JimGunn Red Belt

    JimGunn
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    I'll pretend that you aren't feigning ignorance of his obvious appeal and answer this. Daniels has a karate style that is rare to see in professional combat sports and throws a lot of spinning attacks, including odd kicks & jumping strikes and they have been very effective against middling to decent opponents at least to create many highlight reel knockouts. It's fun to watch someone utilize such moves in a sport that almost entirely consists of fighters mostly using the same Dutch style of kickboxing. Welterweight contender Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson has some of the same appeal in the UFC and other MMA fighters like former UFC LHW champion Lyoto Machida were also considered fun to watch for the same reason. I'm surprised that there aren't more karate style fighters mixing in those moves with the more traditional kickboxing style.
     
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  14. Snubnoze707 High Level

    Snubnoze707
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    To be fair, that example was literally Cung Le's first MMA fight. I was ten rows back and saw Cung kick the sweat off of dudes head :D
     
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  15. LHWBelt Silver Belt

    LHWBelt
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    From what I gather the talent in Bellator kickboxing isn't there. That said I enjoy it. Like someone said it's like 4 cards a year and usually after a real Bellator event I already watched. It's partially intriguing because Bellator have used a few guys in MMA and Kickboxing and it's cool to see the crossover. Obviously most guys do better in their main sport but it gives freedom to have Sergei Kharitonov take a kickboxing fight or someone similar. Also Daniels is fun to watch I agree. Idk if he really would have beaten that dude though, the cut stoppage was a little lame in a title bout when it wasn't right above his eye. I don't know if that's typical of kickboxing or what.
     
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  16. II Muchetto II Orange Belt

    II Muchetto II
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    I personally dont understand all the hate with BellatorKB. Its building up, it has some great fighters and the match ups arent so far appart in ability that its a joke like people are saying.

    As a kickboxing fan i want it to succeed, but as there is not much money in it, I understand that it will need to be built up slowly.

    I was at the jordan watson v petrosyan card. All the bellatorKB fights that night was great, there was some good names on that card. The promotion and set up was fantastic (better than ufc shows i have been too), the tickets were extreamly cheap. It was very good value for money. They had other KB promotions on earlier in the night that had some good fights. The only thing that let the show down was the MMA.

    I went to a small local show in the UK a few months after. A show that gets a lot of love, it had 11 tittle fights that night, it was aweful. Bad matchups, bias decisions, not much talent on display. I coundnt believe the match ups in the tittle fights i was watching, that was a joke.

    BellatorKB isnt the biggest or best, but it is making a good effort to put on some good kickboxing shows, of course it is trying to build up fighters, what promotion doesnt? but even that doesnt always work out as Kielholtz lost her tittle to the fairly unknown italian girl, and got it back via a close split decision win.
     
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  17. Dessyboy Blue Belt

    Dessyboy
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    Raymond isn't going to beat the absolute best, but the fact he can hang with some damm good fighters and beat many with his style is impressive
     
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  18. Julius_Caesar Brown Belt

    Julius_Caesar
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    No I just genuinely haven't watched much of him. Only little clips here and there.

    I'm not surprised. That style is not always effective in kb the way Muaythai and Dutch style is.
     
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  19. manlyseaeagle Orange Belt

    manlyseaeagle
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    I agree I get bored with the Dutch style when seems to be mostly Boxing with low kicks.
     
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  20. tru3f4n Black Belt

    tru3f4n
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    Then watch Shoot Boxing, Muay Thai, or Japanese Kickboxing.
     
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