Questions regarding the cross

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Ilk, Mar 13, 2017.

  1. Ilk Yellow Belt

    Ilk
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    So I have been training intensively lately and due to injury I am taking it slow and easy and working on my technique.

    I am an ortodox. During my cross I used to load my left hip. However I read you should transfer the weight at the right hip for more explosiveness and power.

    The thing is when I load the the right hip it indeed feels stronger and more explosive. But when I load the left I am ready for a kick.

    I ve chatted around with friends doing fight sports. Most boxers said load the right hip, most kick boxera said load the left.

    What is the correct answere here?
     
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  2. a guy Black Belt

    a guy
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    You don't have to throw it the same way every time. If you're throwing for power you can throw with slightly different mechanics than if you're throwing to set up a kick or something else. Practice both, adjust to what you're doing in the moment.
     
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  3. rmongler Brown Belt

    rmongler
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    Imagine there is a big giant steam valve sticking up out of the ground in front of you.

    You put your hands on top of the valve, and start to turn it.

    Your feet are like anchors, digging into the ground, exerting force in opposed directions.

    The moment arm begins at once side of the body, and ends at the other side; the fulcrum some point in the middle being turned around.

    The force is exerted by one side of the lever going forward, and the other side going back.

    You, yourself, are not moving forwards, or backwards, or side to side, but turning in place.

    It is almost as if you are trying to screw *yourself* into the ground.


    That is what people mean when they say 'punch with leverage'.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
  4. AndyMaBobs Green Belt

    AndyMaBobs
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    As per usual I'm going to make sure that I've tagged @Sano just to double check if I get anything wrong.

    I've been relearning my rear straight technique for more power.

    How I'm currently doing it to get more leverage is as follows:

    Step 1. Turn the hips (when doing it slowly try to go as far as you possible can, it'll get you in the habit of properly turning through on the punch)
    Step 2. Turn the shoulder - bring your lead shoulder back as far as it will go, maximum torque
    Step 3. Lower your bass - bend at the knee
    Step 4. Pivot on the ball of your lead foot - it helps to always be up somewhat on that rear foot.

    Practise this slowly step by step and then gradually speed it up, and then try to get it in one fluid motion without stopping between each step, and there's your punch.

    I think rmonglers explanation of screwing yourself into the ground is a pretty good one.
     
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  5. Ilk Yellow Belt

    Ilk
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    Maybe I did not express myself well. Sorry if that is the case, English is not my first language.

    I asked where the finishing move ends? Finishing with loading the front hip or back hip. For me when I put the weight on the rear hip in the end of the movement I get more explosive strong cross. However if I finish and load the lead hip I have power to kick or left hook uppercut and etc.

    I was wondering what is the correct technique to drill. So far a guy tells me to drill both.

    I am really focusing on technique atm as I am recovering from an injury and I want to go back to the basics and build/rebuild the right fondations.
     
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  6. Sano Brown Belt

    Sano
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    You mean pivot on the ball of your rear foot right?

    Looks good. I'd say:

    1. Be in a good stance and have your feet under you.
    2. Lower your base, bend your knees and push straight down into the ground with your rear foot.
    4. Turn your hips and rotate around a completely vertical axis.
    5. Pivot on the ball of your rear foot, don't lean and keep rotating around a vertical axis.
    6. Engage the lats, turn the shoulders and extend the punch.

    The sequencing that works for you is something you have to keep practicing to get right. A lot of the stuff happens almost simultaniously and the force application has to be nailed down. Keep practicing and work on it, you'll feel it when you've done it right.

    Also, as a guy said, there are different variations depending on what you want to set up. The one described above is great to learn because it's usually the hardest one (both in terms of power and motor learning). This one is keeping your weight back (on the right hip while punching if you're orthodox).

    You can still do the cross with the majority of the weight back on the rear hip and after it's extended naturally put a little more weight on your lead hip, before coming back with a lead hook. It's hard to know without watching it, but the weight shifting can be very subtle. Anyway, drill both of your scenarios.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
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  7. a guy Black Belt

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    Something that's usually missing when people are trying to perfect their cross (or any punch) is starting position. Before any of your steps, you need to get in the right position or that rear straight will be missing steam from the beginning. Proper starting position involves weight shifted back to the rear leg (over the ball, not over the heel). The lead foot and shoulder should be pointed at the target, with the lead heel slightly off the ground. The hips and knees are slightly engaged, the back is straight, the rear elbow is tight to the ribs. From this position the weight shift is loaded, the torso rotation is loaded and the punch is properly aligned. If you get into this position at the correct distance, you're gonna destroy whatever you hit.
     
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  8. AndyMaBobs Green Belt

    AndyMaBobs
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    This is what I really need to work on, because I end up putting weight on the back foot too suddenly and not feeling balanced.

    It's a shame that in practise so much of this is difficult to pull off haha :D
     
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  9. a guy Black Belt

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    You know what puts you in the perfect position to throw a rear straight every single time? Your jab!
     
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  10. j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    [​IMG]
     
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  11. panamaican Steel Belt

    panamaican
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    Learning to load either hip is good but it's important to not load the left hip by overextending or leaning. Which is a lot harder than it sounds.
     
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  12. LeonardoBjj Professional-Wrestler

    LeonardoBjj
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    - Great thread. For some reason i can do the left-cross correct but my right one sucks and i am right handed.
     
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  13. biscuitsbrah Black Belt

    biscuitsbrah
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    Do you even load your right hip bro.

    But seriously, practice the way everyone is telling you and then when you need that extra range or reach it will feel natural to load the left hip and lean a little bit if needed to throw longer straights. Practicing other way will not translate as easy imo.

    I dont even like to lean or load the left hip too much on the right kick because peoplel will read that and it telegraphs it. The best kick starts with the leg only imo.
     
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  14. CFGroup Blue Belt

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    Best way to recup from injury.

    Back to basics and refine technique!

    Good luck in the recovery!
     
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  15. CFGroup Blue Belt

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    Just a question.

    Why wouldn't you return to center balanced on both feet or 40 back 60 front cause I'm an old TKD guy and like to spin?

    From my understanding I want my neutral stance to be where I can launch any punch with minimal windup movement prior to throwing.

    I push off of my same side ball of foot as the strike and snap pivot in that direction with my hips. But it's only as long as the cross takes to extend and retract. My hips and body are driving the punch and returning to defend stance, I'm using my upper body control to direct it as a hook,cross ect....?
     
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  16. wilddeuces Purple Belt

    wilddeuces
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    With all this really useful feedback you are getting from people make sure you put in the hours in front of a mirror shadowboxing and watching what you are doing. Or video tape yourself shadowboxing and watch it later next to a video of a pro shadowboxing and see what happens.

    Shadowboxing is essential to perfecting technique, especially technique applied while moving. Throwing a right hand moving forward, backwards, side to side.

    Shadowboxing is probably the best you can get next to sparring.
     
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  17. Ilk Yellow Belt

    Ilk
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    I do put them. Being doing technique and shadow boxing rounds between my recovery strenght training.

    Even started a log.
     
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  18. rmongler Brown Belt

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    Pay attention to McGregor's feet as he throws the punch.

    I don't mean at him moving backwards, i mean look at the exact moment he throws

    Here is another angle.
    [​IMG]

    The moment he is unloading the cross, his feet plant, digging in as he turns in place, the left side going forward as the right side goes back.

    Even though all of his momentum is moving backwards, the rotational velocity generated in that brief, fragile instant is what allows his fist to go forward and overcome all of that inertia to deliver a knock out, even as the rest of his body continues to fall away.
     
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    Last edited: May 20, 2017
  19. Ilk Yellow Belt

    Ilk
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    Funny thing regarding the cross. I am retraining its technique again and again I am experiencing problems. Here are key points for a good cross that I have learned from a good coach.

    1. Stance which was individually crafted for me - squared a bit, legs in a shoulder length.
    2. There is no exaggerated hip rotation. The hips rotate but you feel it mostly when you turn to a guard position. The coach actually calls it kicking. The whole strength comes from the rear foot. Kick he says when he wants me to trow a straight right. So basically that rear foot rotates you, not the hips.
    3. The hand and the back are very relaxed. You squeeze at the end of the hit when you are also rotating your hand in order to snap punch and not push.

    @rmongler that is a classic side step and cross and even McGregor is not pulling a very good technique into it. He rotates too much, which leans him. Yes it is easy when you watch :D but that is god damn hard technique to pull off. The power came that McGregor has a proper boxing straight and his mini jump with both legs, but especially the rear leg, not his rotation. And the fact that Aldo runs forward of course.
     
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  20. CFGroup Blue Belt

    CFGroup
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    R U saying the power comes from pushing off with that back leg?
    That's the way I've always understood the power mechanics for punches and throws and in some capacity kicks.
     
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