patience for standup fighting

[clashnat]

^ So what makes you think that you're patient and not merely inactive?

 

[fightingrabbit]

Necromancy- the resurrection of the dead.

On topic: I'm too patient for some western judges. One judge from a fight that i had a while ago who was from a western kickboxing and MMA background said to a trainer that I was just standing there, not doing anything. The trainer, from a Thai background, said they could see I was waiting and looking for opportunities to counter attack. Things look different depending on what you are used to seeing or looking for.

^ I wouldn't put patience and inactivity in the same category. Inactivity is usually related to lack of conditioning or lack of knowledge/ability.

Burn?

Also on the topic, you should always be actively looking and creating opportunities for counter punches. I've heard that is what the best counter punchers do. They don't just sit and wait all day for the opponent to make a move. They actively make moves that get their opponents to make a misstep.

Lying in wait on the outside is only going to look bad in the eyes of the judges (as in Kiwi Trickers case). You can be patient to a fault. Even if you consider yourself a "pure" counter puncher, eventually you're going to have to learn to make some forward movements to draw an attack. Go watch great counter fighters and you'll see that they didn't just sit and wait.

 

[Kiwi Tricker]

^ So what makes you think that you're patient and not merely inactive?

Experience, I guess. You're welcome to watch the fight- it's under my post history. It was my 10th fight and first loss, fighting for a second title.

 

[MuayThaiDude]

Experience, I guess. You're welcome to watch the fight- it's under my post history. It was my 10th fight and first loss, fighting for a second title.

I remember watching that fight. You were very good. I remember watching it and thinking how calm you looked in the ring, which to me is a very Thai trait. Here in the States a lot of people, especially in amateurs, go in balls to the wall right off the bat and it can sometimes look like a giant mess, slugging away with little set up time or patience. I noticed this especially at the WKAs. Maybe it's the Top Ten headgear they wear, you can eat punches pretty well in those things.

 

[clashnat]

Experience, I guess. You're welcome to watch the fight- it's under my post history. It was my 10th fight and first loss, fighting for a second title.

Oh, that's a muay thai fight. Misunderstanding, I thought you were talking boxing.

I'm not very familiar with muay thai. I can see why you lost that fight though, just based on activity. The guy outworked you in every round besides the last one, where you really started to fight. At one point you even had him close to the ropes, but you elected to make a few steps back and let him off the hook.

 

[Kiwi Tricker]

Oh, that's a muay thai fight. Misunderstanding, I thought you were talking boxing.

I'm not very familiar with muay thai. I can see why you lost that fight though, just based on activity. The guy outworked you in every round besides the last one, where you really started to fight. At one point you even had him close to the ropes, but you elected to make a few steps back and let him off the hook.

Interesting you say that. Under WKBF rules I definitely lost that match, but under more Thai scoring I believe I would have won- but that's neither here nor there. Just illustrates what I was saying with regards to what you're used to looking at affecting the way you see what's happening in the ring.

 

[clashnat]

here's another recent example of patience:



Nonetheless ...I'm surprised how a man with as much experience as Arlovski still showcases such a low tactical IQ. At this point he should know that fighting is not all speed and power.

 

[wilddeuces]

For counter strikers like myself, its hard to maintain patience when things arent going you way, and since you dont like to be aggresive theres not much you can do. Even in sparring you need alot of discipline to stay on your game. Anyone have this problem, any drills or anything i should note on being more patient?

You can goad them though. I'll occasionally do that.

As a parallel, James Longstreet - a Civil War general - was pretty skillful at being strategically aggressive, but tactically defensive. He would aggressively maneuver his army into a vital position that forced a response from his opponent. They had to attack him and he could use his defensive advantages to inflict startling amounts of damage on his opponent's army. What this means is that you can you use you feet and feints to position yourself where your opponent feels like they have to attack. When they attack - ideally with reckless abandon - you can counter.

Hope that helps. It sometimes works for me.

Edit: lol! I should really read the dates. This thread was a reaurrected corpse.

 

[AshiharaFan]

Addressing TS's concerns it may help to approach defense (not counter fighting) as a discipline in and of itself (blocking and evading). Having a superior defense can allow you to keep the space that you need and avoid at least some or possibly most of your sparring partners attacks until you feel comfortable enough to implement your counterattack. Keep in mind that you cannot fight defensively forever. At some point you have to launch your counter or mount an offense of your own because an aggressive fighter WILL get the best of you if you are content to play defense.

 

[CFGroup]

U gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette.

U gotta take some hits to expose your opponents offense.

Getting good at reading the reaction your movements are going to provoke will gain you the info you need to bait him into your countering game.

I they have MT based footwork you'll see that right away and know they can't chase you to fare without breaking down their defensive cover. With MT they are more likely to turtle up and absorb the punishment than retreat to far so you know you have a more stationary target. Downside is if you open up you are going to be on the receiving end of the punishment.
If it's a counter striker, my favorite, then they will be less likely to fully commit and you can start baiting them by deceiving the distance, feigning and watching how they react to counter your advances. You just have to drill a zillion pressure counters to keep in distance but not get too tagged by how they're countering you after you get a read on their initial reactions. So bait them into giving up their arsenal choices, then with pressure, setup openings for them to counter you, but have an offensive answer to there countering you....LOL!

It's really mental chess at human speed with 3 dimensional pieces. You figure out what they're going to do, then figure out your response to capitalize on what they're going to do...

Fun stuff!