One thing that always bugged me about GoT series one (GoT brahs get in here) *SPOILERS*

[moreorless87]

You're still overlooking imo that guys like Renly and Stannis wouldn't have worked with Baelish. The Lannisters were greasy, and would work with anyone to maintain power. He trusted that win or lose they could use their resources to drag out a long bloody war, during which other houses were weakened and he had a chance to hop around gaining power, and exploiting people forced to work with him because they were desparate.

Perhaps you couldn't rule out Renly or Stannis working with him entirely, if it had ment winning the throne they might have but it would never have been an alliance with any trust and every chance they would turn on him as soon as was convenient. I mean Baelish does actually try to convince Ned to stay onside with Joffery so its really more Renly and especially Stannis that he's most obviously against.

 

[Stranger Come Knocking]

Nah. Books 1-3 are a masterpiece. Books 4-5 feel like GRRM tried to make the story even more complicated, bit off more than he could chew, and now it's virtually impossible to resolve everything.

I kinda feel like that's a hipster thing to say. I mean I was disappointed initially with them but liked them much much better upon rereads. I think people feel this way because 1-3 were so good and had huge moments. 5 did have Jon's death but then a huge cliffhanger and wait. Also remember they're setting up the end. I think people will like them better after the whole thing is done.

 

[DarkneT]

Damn TS your really over thinking it dude

Little finger was mad as fuck that Ned was plowing the love of his life
Knew full well he would be safe regardless of the wars
And just wanted a little revenge

 

[Fungoose]

He was made Lord of Harrenhall for it.

Janos Slynt was given Harrenhal for his service in the matter of Joffreys succession. Petyr Baelish was given Harrenhal for brokering the alliance between Houses Tyrell and Lannister/Baratheon, with the proposal of marriage between Margery and Joffrey. This happened after Renlys death while the bulk of the Tyrell forces were camped at Bitterbridge. It wasn’t just a reward, it was part of Tywins larger plan to bring The Vale back into the fold. Baelish needed a lofty title and great seat to be anything other than Lysas paramour, so Tywin granted him Harrenhal and made him Lord Paramount of The Trident (Riverlands).

 

[horc00]

TLDR;

- Baelish's decision to betray Ned made no sense strategically as the Lannisters had no allies and arresting him/putting him in jail resulted in 3 or 4 kingdoms in open rebellion against them.

Thoughts?

Because he put that Catelyn pussy on a pedestal.

 

[horc00]

This, as good as the show is, thee books are ten thousand times better. No bullshit hipster dan and Dave with retarded plotlines. Before the show came out I used to reread them every fall and was on the westeros website much more than sherdog

Without guidance from the book, the last season of the tv show has been absolute shite. You get a very clear vibe that the plot is being rushed and the pieces are forced to fit.

It went from this...

to this...

 

[Scrody]

Janos Slynt was given Harrenhal for his service in the matter of Joffreys succession. Petyr Baelish was given Harrenhal for brokering the alliance between Houses Tyrell and Lannister/Baratheon, with the proposal of marriage between Margery and Joffrey. This happened after Renlys death while the bulk of the Tyrell forces were camped at Bitterbridge. It wasn’t just a reward, it was part of Tywins larger plan to bring The Vale back into the fold. Baelish needed a lofty title and great seat to be anything other than Lysas paramour, so Tywin granted him Harrenhal and made him Lord Paramount of The Trident (Riverlands).

Ah yeah you're right. Fuckin Janos.

 

[Fungoose]

I think people will like them better after the whole thing is done.

 

[Brother Numsi]

Nonsense. The entire first season/book Sansa is obsessed with power and becoming a queen/princess. She is so blinded by this that she refuses to even see Joffrey for the monster that he is. She betrays Arya and Ned in her pursuit of power, and never redeems herself.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The only Sansa ending that would be fitting is if she dies giving birth to Ramsay's son.

Sansa pissed me off almost as much as Theon Greyjoy betraying Robb. Couldn't believe she sold out her own family just so she could become queen. Every one knew Joffrey was a demon even Sansa and she still wanted to marry that fool. True, Margaery Tyrell also wanted to marry Joffrey but she would have never sold out her family to do it.

 

[whougonnacall]

He had plenty of motivation. King Stannis would've closed his brothels and either ran him out of King's Landing or put his head on a pike.

This
When ned rejects his offer and tells him hel crown stanis hes basicaly making lf chose the side that wonnt destroy him
His control of lysa arryn means he has one kiingdom in the bag , he starts a war then plans to roll the dice and see how he can climb in the ensuing chaos! In books and show its what makes his character so brilliant...he can simply play shit by ear

 

[ralphc1]

OK, OK I get the 'chaos is a ladder thing' but it's still a stretch if you ask me. Littlefinger might've served his own interests but in the process of betraying Ned he chose a side and that side was the weakest one militarily to choose, it makes no sense. Say Stannis or Renly had marched on the capital and taken it, which was a plausible scenario at the time, you think nobody might've mentioned that Littlefinger was instrumental in the plot to keep a Baratheon bro off the throne?

Stannis/Renly/Robb would've likely arrested and tortured anyone involved in the whole situation and got the truth out of them. Hell, Varys would've probably volunteered the information to get Baelish out of the way. There's also the chance that if Stannis or Renly (Robb was too far away at this point) had marched on the capital right away, Ned would've been still alive and the Lannisters would've been forced to ransom him to buy time, at which point he would've been all 'It was that Baelish motherfucker who did me like that'.

So yeah I get that Littlefinger's aim is to spread chaos, I completely get the WHY but looking at it objectively with all the possible scenarios that could've came out of it he made a REALLY dumb strategic decision to betray Ned and it's only GoT being GoT that let him get away with it. this is completely at odds with the portrayal of him as an amoral scheming pragmatist. In real life having such overwhelming odds against you in terms of numbers and resources (Tyrells, Dorne, North, both Baratheons, Riverlands, etc against just the Lannisters) is suicide. Half of the trouble of war is trying to convince others to do it with you and the Lannisters were getting bodied on this front until the magic of fiction helped them out.

Baelish worked in the background to influence outcomes. Others thought they were using him when he was really using them. His actions didn't become highly visible until the very end.

 

[whougonnacall]

It was about the woman he lost to the guy he hated.

Dont forget ned older brother fucked him up and left him for dead and with a giant scar for life

 

[Mike]

Sansa pissed me off almost as much as Theon Greyjoy betraying Robb. Couldn't believe she sold out her own family just so she could become queen. Every one knew Joffrey was a demon even Sansa and she still wanted to marry that fool. True, Margaery Tyrell also wanted to marry Joffrey but she would have never sold out her family to do it.

Eh they did go out of their way to show she didn't know own what she was getting into until it was too late. She was just a teenager. She knew he could do cunty things, but she thought it would be limited to the common folk, which she didn't really give a shit about. Somewhere around the time they killed her father, she began to realize she fucked up but it was too late by then.

I wouldn't say she was willing to sell out her family, there was the spat with Arya but if she thought Arya herself would be hurt I think she would have acted differently. She helped get Aryas friend killed, but even then I doubt she knew it would come to that.

 

[blaseblah]

Baelish was smart enough to know that Ned's honor and stupidity would get him killed sooner or later. He knew Twin was the one to side with. Lannisters would still be running shit if Tyrion hadn't killed him.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

Everything after about the third season has been hot garbage.

 

[MikeMcMann]

if you read the books you'd know his primary motivation was to destroy Ned for "stealing" his beloved Catelyn. His love for her made him act irrationally.

Yes and while that played a big role in the TV show it was not his primary motivation.

his primary motivation in the show was to see all the great houses fall an to grab as much power as he could in the chaos.

You see Little Finger strategically swing his loyalty, position and offices against any house that appears to be consolidating power after he starts the wars. He wanted all the great houses in perpetual war and depleted as much as possible before things settled. So he helped the Lannisters take down the Starks and gut most of the North Forces. Once the Lannisters and Ramsey's seem to be gaining control he swung his forces against them, and so on and so on.

 

[blaseblah]

They really ruined the character of Baelish this last season. Turned him from master manipulater to skulking around twirling his mustache and scheming for the sake of scheming. Also that fake beef between Arya and Sansa was awful. Hard to believe the same people are writing the show.

 

[Midnighter]

They really ruined the character of Baelish this last season. Turned him from master manipulater to skulking around twirling his mustache and scheming for the sake of scheming. Also that fake beef between Arya and Sansa was awful. Hard to believe the same people are writing the show.

Yea, I agree. Faking his death would be the only thing that would make sense in regards to his characterization, but I doubt he did.