Official Judo Thread

I agree Onq, what I meant was that particular grappling arts still have strengths over one another.

I'm not saying wrestler's can't hip toss or that Judo player's can't shoot, but I'm inclined to think the Judo player has throw far more hip tosses than the wrestler and that at the wrestler has a better shot. Mostly because those are the emphasized techniques for beginners. Especially since the leg grab ban.

And what i was getting at is the citrus belt trap where you 'get a win' in randori. I'm all about the quickest way to win in Shiai, but if you're using your Randori time to just wrap people up and fall down and 'get a win' you're not doing much to improve your Judo.
 
nah. if Judo was supposed to be forward throws with no groundwork it'd be Kurash.

the throws a particular wrestler uses seem to rely on the coach's ability and that wrestler's body type. i'm not saying pure wrestlers don't hip toss, but I see a lot more hip-tosses from the kids who cross-train.

oontrast that with someone who started Judo in the last decade, what are the odds they've practiced a leg grab to the point of proficiency?

granted we need to consider goals and athletic ability, but almost every Judo practice that i've been to usually involve uchikomi or nagekomi reps with seoi nage, o goshi, and goshi guruma. granted I've only been to a dozen or so different schools, but those throws were repped every practice.

and again dude, i'm not staying wrestlers can't/don't practice hip tosses, i just don't think they practice them as frequently as Judo players do
 
RJ Green said:
nah. if Judo was supposed to be forward throws with no groundwork it'd be Kurash.

the throws a particular wrestler uses seem to rely on the coach's ability and that wrestler's body type. i'm not saying pure wrestlers don't hip toss, but I see a lot more hip-tosses from the kids who cross-train.

oontrast that with someone who started Judo in the last decade, what are the odds they've practiced a leg grab to the point of proficiency?

granted we need to consider goals and athletic ability, but almost every Judo practice that i've been to usually involve uchikomi or nagekomi reps with seoi nage, o goshi, and goshi guruma. granted I've only been to a dozen or so different schools, but those throws were repped every practice.

and again dude, i'm not staying wrestlers can't/don't practice hip tosses, i just don't think they practice them as frequently as Judo players do
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Thats is purely because of the way judo is practiced in a lot of countries.
Definitely not the way is practiced in Georgia or Uzbekistan, for example.
There you can clearly see a lot greater variety of throws.
I teach techniques, suitable for all throwing sports, so players dont need to adjust to a completely different strategy every time.

BTW, Kurash has a lot more pickups and backward throws :)
 
yeah that's what i was getting at man. huge difference over here between hobby Judo and competitive Judo. competitive practices resemble slav grappling workouts in terms of structure and intensity, more 'wrestley' if you will.

contrast that with the 'you're using too much strength and speed' folks whose practices seem to entail standing around and babbling about details that don't matter.
 
when i make generalizations about things try to assume i'm only talking about America since we're the center of the universe and nobody else matters.
 
I went to a Judo seminar in the states recently where the guy teaching spent 3 hours on De Ashi Barai and the class only repped it about 40 times.

But god damn, those details, I learned so much about how to talk about that throw.
 
Wrestling in the US is also taught very differently than it is in other countries. US folkstyle is taught mostly during the season in a scholastic environment, so guys get maybe 4 months of intensive training a year, and it's common they don't wrestle at all the rest of the year. As such what you see is that wrestlers are mostly taught basic shots and setups, and also the basics from referree's position which is a skill set that only exists in the context of US folkstyle. There just isn't a lot of time to develop upper body throwing skills, and you see those being largely being ignored (since American folk also doesn't give you more points for a big throw vs. a little ankle pick). If we started teaching in clubs with the international styles you'd probably see a lot more, but Americans are just generally not great throwers.

@jack36767 could tell you more as he's coached wrestling at several levels in the US.
 
Thycidides said:
Yeah my training is not ideal. 2 days a week I do a sparring heavy Mauy Thai class and try to clinch and throw people there. There is a surprising amount of overlap. I'm the only student that likes to clinch haha.

There is also one takedown heavy BJJ class a week as well where we actually fight on the feet.

It feels like a bigger problem is I don't know how many throws/ takedowns I should try to get good at. Should I try to get good at double leg/ single leg as well as judo throws, or focus on the upper body type throws?
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Muay Thai where no one likes clinching, sounds like a kickboxing instructor that calls it Muay Thai just because it is more popular. Unless it isn't the coach and more the partners you have sorry for assuming.
The thing I am learning most from Thai is the clinch and throws otherwise I'ld still be doing Kyokushin Karate.
I also try to use what my BJJ coach (he is Judo/BJJ Blackbelt) shows us in the clinch for throws my Muay Thai coach doesn't mind that much and even has fun with it.
 
Lamfadha said:
Muay Thai where no one likes clinching, sounds like a kickboxing instructor that calls it Muay Thai just because it is more popular. Unless it isn't the coach and more the partners you have sorry for assuming.
The thing I am learning most from Thai is the clinch and throws otherwise I'ld still be doing Kyokushin Karate.
I also try to use what my BJJ coach (he is Judo/BJJ Blackbelt) shows us in the clinch for throws my Muay Thai coach doesn't mind that much and even has fun with it.
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It is the students that do not like the clinch. The coaches encourage us to do it. Each month has a specific theme and clinch is the most prevalent theme of the month so far. They teach throws and sweeps and use them in sparring. But I am the only student that tries to throw people in sparring . I don't get whey other students don't like the clinch but come to a Mauy Thai gym. Also they want to play rock em sock em robots rather than do the technical sparring that the Thais do. I don't understand.

I have more confidence in the Mauy Thai curriculum than the Judo classes, which shouldn't be the case at all as the gym owner and head instructor actually competed at a high level of judo than any of the Mauy Thai coaches did in Mauy Thai. We actually have 4 or 5 people out of like 25 that compete in Mauy thai as armatures. No one competes in judo though. And there are like 4-5 guys that come regularly to judo class.


Im similarly frustrated by sparring partners that want to stiff arm rather than try to throw me in judo practice. Very odd

I only have one good sparring partner for Judo, the other 4-5 guys stiff arm or use the 40+ pounds they have on me slam me into the ground.

Also at open mat not many people wants to work on takedowns. Perhaps If I ask on facebook they will.

However, I don't want to compete in MT I want to compete in Judo and get good at takedowns I can use in BJJ.
 
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a lot of people have a 'win' mentality at practice instead of a 'learn' mentality. and i don't mean like 'get after it' i mean 'don't even attempt to cooperate.'

fuuuuck that, god forbid you just show up to judo and let people throw you right?

but this is why we have osotogari. if they can't learn to cooperate, they must be taught to cooperate.
 
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SummerStriker said:
I went to a Judo seminar in the states recently where the guy teaching spent 3 hours on De Ashi Barai and the class only repped it about 40 times.

But god damn, those details, I learned so much about how to talk about that throw.
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Ironically, De Ashi Barai is one of the if not the easiest falls you can take...
 
Thycidides said:
It is the students that do not like the clinch. The coaches encourage us to do it. Each month has a specific theme and clinch is the most prevalent theme of the month so far. They teach throws and sweeps and use them in sparring. But I am the only student that tries to throw people in sparring . I don't get whey other students don't like the clinch but come to a Mauy Thai gym. Also they want to play rock em sock em robots rather than do the technical sparring that the Thais do. I don't understand.

I have more confidence in the Mauy Thai curriculum than the Judo classes, which shouldn't be the case at all as the gym owner and head instructor actually competed at a high level of judo than any of the Mauy Thai coaches did in Mauy Thai. We actually have 4 or 5 people out of like 25 that compete in Mauy thai as armatures. No one competes in judo though. And there are like 4-5 guys that come regularly to judo class.


Im similarly frustrated by sparring partners that want to stiff arm rather than try to throw me in judo practice. Very odd

I only have one good sparring partner for Judo, the other 4-5 guys stiff arm or use the 40+ pounds they have on me slam me into the ground.

Also at open mat not many people wants to work on takedowns. Perhaps If I ask on facebook they will.

However, I don't want to compete in MT I want to compete in Judo and get good at takedowns I can use in BJJ.
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My guess is they don't like falling, for one reason or another.

I'd suggest you find another judo school if at all possible.
 
Yeah people do not like to fall.

I have thought about going to different places, but the other judo schools in the area are about the same as where I train now and would get in the way of my BJJ classes.
 
Thycidides said:
Yeah people do not like to fall.

I have thought about going to different places, but the other judo schools in the area are about the same as where I train now and would get in the way of my BJJ classes.
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They only have 4 or 5 guys doing Judo? That is a pretty small judo school/club.

Good luck, I feel for you. It's tough to learn much in that sort of environment.
 
RJ Green said:
Pain is the best teacher but nobody likes his class.
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With a decent tatami system, it does not have to be so painful. Even given that, though, falling is scary.

Nobody learned much without being uncomfortable. Really, really uncomfortable if they are serious...
 
BKR said:
They only have 4 or 5 guys doing Judo? That is a pretty small judo school/club.

Good luck, I feel for you. It's tough to learn much in that sort of environment.
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This is true - lots of different randori partners are needed. Go together with other clubs and arrange spezial randori sessions once a week or show up for the best randori in other clubs if possible.
 
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