MMA would be taking a step back if Ngannou becomes champ

[Logical Fella C]

A fighter's skill set is often much more than what meets the eye.

George Foreman used to wing his punches like crazy but that was him using his power and physical strength to the max.

Watch Jack Dempsey maul Jesse Willard, and tell me how "technical" those haymakers were.

Rocky Marciano was a brawler who would lunge in with bombs and get off-balance all the time, but was able to make his "ugly" style of fighting work in his favor.

All these guys are also considered all-time greats.

It seems like there is a strong bias the MMA community when it comes to striking that ONLY textbook jabs, crisp leg kicks and a high guard = a high-level striking.

Besides, I don't really get why the "sport would look bad" if Stipe loses.

I don't think boxing looked any worse because Iran Barkley beat Tommy Hearns twice or kickboxing became a joke when Sapp beat Hoost twice.

It's a fight. Anything can happen, especially in the HW division.

Ngannou is definitely a raw prospect, while Stipe has proven himself time and time against top competition, so I'd favor Stipe slightly.

But only slightly, because Stipe is hittable, and I'm not sure if even Stipe can come back from getting hit flush by Ngannou.

 

[Rvd Slmr]

Ngannou is too raw? IMO it's actually a good thing since it means he has a ton of room to get even better.

 

[Rod Farva]

There is nothing wrong with fighters who are VERY good at just one thing. There are lots of successful fighters in the sport that have the same accumen. Conor, Anderson Silva, Damien maia are all mostly just great at one thing and they have seen success at the highest levels. All fights start standing, and if Ngannou can keep you can keep it standing, that's his wheel house. You can say he's an "incomplete" fighter much like the ones I posted above but it has nothing to do with the progression of the sport imo.

Anyways Stipe hits hard too. but lets be honest. Overreem tagged him and COULD have finished him if he didn't go for a stupid choke. Even against JDS, Stipe looked a bit sloppy too. He's not unbeatable by anymeans and I like Stipe a lot, this fight has me torn.

Silva is a lot more than just a striker.

 

[613]

MMA fans may not want to admit it. But Stipe and all HWs are not very skilled compared to the other weight classes. HW is the only division that i would say has not evolved in 15 years

 

[Flokk]

MMA is all about offing old shells of fighters?

Nah.

 

[tdluxon]

Still curious to see how well he can defend takedowns against a better wrestler, and if he does get taken down, how well he can escape or defend himself. Until we see that, he's a big question mark.

 

[613]

There is nothing wrong with fighters who are VERY good at just one thing. There are lots of successful fighters in the sport that have the same accumen. Conor, Anderson Silva, Damien maia are all mostly just great at one thing and they have seen success at the highest levels. All fights start standing, and if Ngannou can keep you can keep it standing, that's his wheel house. You can say he's an "incomplete" fighter much like the ones I posted above but it has nothing to do with the progression of the sport imo.

Anyways Stipe hits hard too. but lets be honest. Overreem tagged him and COULD have finished him if he didn't go for a stupid choke. Even against JDS, Stipe looked a bit sloppy too. He's not unbeatable by anymeans and I like Stipe a lot, this fight has me torn.

Anderson was pretty well rounded. He had a great ground game

 

[Leonard Haid]

So if Francis becomes champ let a better MMA man come along and beat him.

What happens in the HW division is not representative of ALL the divisions.

 

[Dbreiden83080]

The least skilled guys in the sport are at heavyweight. It’s basically always been that way since the inception of the sport. The fighters with more versatile games will always be in the lower classes.

 

[MeatheadFighter]

This is not a bashing thread. The point is that at this level, guys who are only good at one thing and rely purely on physical attributes are supposed to be a thing of the past. The last fighter who succeeded that way in the UFC was Brock Lesnar and that was a long time ago. It would look bad on the sport if Stipe loses.

Ngannou: the only real threat he presents are his hands. Supposedly he had some kind of boxing background but he shows very little of it and no jab, the most important punch of all. He's too raw, just look at his footwork. Doesn't really have any other weapons on the feet, doesn't have a ground game(aside from a keylock against a lower level guy) and his TDD is still a question mark. And with all that muscle there's no way he's not gassed out by round 3.

Even if he lands another windmill and wins the title(highly unlikely. Stipe's no shot ArReemski) he's not destined for longevity. He will be figured out quick because he doesn't have enough other skills to fall back on in this constantly evolving game.

Stipe will win by simply being what a modern MMA fighter is all about. Hate to be a buzzkill sherbros.

Lesnar was an All-American wrestler dipshit.

 

[wilKO]

You realise Stipe is a fucking fire man and part time fighter? Yet Ngannou winning the belt would make MMA look bad? Not the part time fighter being champion???

 

[Emjay]

What if we haven't seen all that he can do yet?

 

[g*r*b]

Stipe working a regular job already makes the division look bush league.

If he had the same dedication to the sport GSP had, a guy like Ngannou wouldn't be such a threat.

You, sir, are a fucking idiot. Do you have any idea how much of a fucking idiot someone has to be to goad me into saying that?

He is a part-time firefighter/paramedic but a full-time fighter. His training regimen doesn't cut any corners because of his time at the fire station. Before he flew out to have a ringside seat of Dana babbling about Ford Escorts at the press conference in Vegas, he was in the Strong Style Gym at three o'clock in the goddam morning during a Cleveland winter, working out. Lack of dedication, my ass.

EDIT That goes for you too, @wilKO

 

[Readybodisready]

People HAVE made the argument that Stipe is one-diminesional. I know, I've replied to their posts. And my argument to them has been a lot like the one I'm making now: you cannot safely assume that because a fighter hasn't shown off a skill recently in the Octagon that they can't do it, or are unable to learn it.

Stipe is indeed very well rounded. Stipe has had the broader background and is a more finished product than Ngannou. But Ngannou isn't so simplistic as you make him out to be.

People saying that about Stipe are trolling. The few who have the balls to say that about Ngannou the next big thing, are being realistic/factual.

And it's not about showing off a skill recently, but about showing it at the highest level. Ngannou is not keylocking a top HW. He's just a big muscular puncher with athletic gifts.

 

[YogaKid]

This is not a bashing thread. The point is that at this level, guys who are only good at one thing and rely purely on physical attributes are supposed to be a thing of the past. The last fighter who succeeded that way in the UFC was Brock Lesnar and that was a long time ago. It would look bad on the sport if Stipe loses.

Ngannou: the only real threat he presents are his hands. Supposedly he had some kind of boxing background but he shows very little of it and no jab, the most important punch of all. He's too raw, just look at his footwork. Doesn't really have any other weapons on the feet, doesn't have a ground game(aside from a keylock against a lower level guy) and his TDD is still a question mark. And with all that muscle there's no way he's not gassed out by round 3.

Even if he lands another windmill and wins the title(highly unlikely. Stipe's no shot ArReemski) he's not destined for longevity. He will be figured out quick because he doesn't have enough other skills to fall back on in this constantly evolving game.

Stipe will win by simply being what a modern MMA fighter is all about. Hate to be a buzzkill sherbros.

 

[Which Doctor]

... The point is that at this level, guys who are only good at one thing and rely purely on physical attributes are supposed to be a thing of the past. The last fighter who succeeded that way in the UFC was Brock Lesnar and that was a long time ago. It would look bad on the sport if Stipe loses...

This is the kind of horseshit that TUF Noobs have preached forever. They've always been wrong, and they've always been the pretentious scum of MMA fandom. The kind of cupcakes the Unified Rules were introduced to appeal to. The folks that always swore up and down that MMA was a clean sport PED wise.

You are better than that.



Guys like Brock and Conor and Ronda and Scott (Ferrozzo) are what made this shit sell for 4 billion. You can reply with a bunch of hypothetical navel gazing about bushido spirit and ethics and integrity of sport (lol) blah-blah-blah, but the reality on the ground is firmly on my side of the debate.



1-Dimensional guys winning?

 

[TrueFightFan]

This is not a bashing thread. The point is that at this level, guys who are only good at one thing and rely purely on physical attributes are supposed to be a thing of the past. The last fighter who succeeded that way in the UFC was Brock Lesnar and that was a long time ago. It would look bad on the sport if Stipe loses.

Ngannou: the only real threat he presents are his hands. Supposedly he had some kind of boxing background but he shows very little of it and no jab, the most important punch of all. He's too raw, just look at his footwork. Doesn't really have any other weapons on the feet, doesn't have a ground game(aside from a keylock against a lower level guy) and his TDD is still a question mark. And with all that muscle there's no way he's not gassed out by round 3.

Even if he lands another windmill and wins the title(highly unlikely. Stipe's no shot ArReemski) he's not destined for longevity. He will be figured out quick because he doesn't have enough other skills to fall back on in this constantly evolving game.

Stipe will win by simply being what a modern MMA fighter is all about. Hate to be a buzzkill sherbros.

You are probably not going to like this but you would have to agree... Fedor could beat Ngannou with the fast overhand right, ala Brett Rogers. He would land it before Ngannou could get his punch off. Ngannou has shown major holes in his striking and Overeem could have landed twice before Ngannou laid him out but he didn't have the balls to commit or he was paid to take a dive. If Miocic figures it out and beats him, "Stipe will be the GOAT". However, if Fedor did it, Ngannou would just be relegated to a Zulu or Choi and "he never faced any real competition. He was just a can."

 

[Senzo Tanaka]

Francis almost has as many submissions as knockouts...

Stipe has 1 submission. Who is more well rounded and setting the sport back?

 

[TrueFightFan]

MMA fans may not want to admit it. But Stipe and all HWs are not very skilled compared to the other weight classes. HW is the only division that i would say has not evolved in 15 years

But that's why "goats" like jones and all other lhw's and mw's avoid them like the plague... because they hit hard enough that they don't have to. "Throw your spinning elbow and show me your fancy footwork but when I punch you in the fucking head, you go down."

 

[pride_is_back]

Stipe is a lot faster and more robust. He should take this fight even at parity.