Media MMA Che: The Problem With Muay Thai in MMA.

[Psychojoe86]

Just came across this vid and I found it interesting how there really haven’t been many pure MT fighters represented at the highest level of MMA.



Cliffs:

— Says MT is the best striking art for MMA.

— Says the MT stance is flawed with its upright and tall posture and light front foot. Wrestlers are able to take advantage of this for an easy takedown.

— Charles Olivera displays a good MT stance because he’s not afraid of being taken down because he’s good of his back.

— MT suffers from underdeveloped boxing and this leads to instances like Barbosa where when pressed on the back foot it forces the MT fighter to rely on their boxing which is not the level of their kicking.

— Thai Nak Muay don’t compete in MMA because MMA doesn’t have the same “honourable” status in Thai culture and MMA isn’t that popular in Thailand.

—MT fighters fight much more frequently than MMA fighters or Boxers leading to many MT fighters to retire early due to damage accumulated.

—if Thais start training MMA at the same age as they normally start training MT they would be a very strong force in MMA.





So what do you guys think? This guy got a point, or is he ignorant of factors?

Well put, but I disagree with the logic on the last point. If they start mma early then they wouldn’t be “muy Thai fighters” lol. They’d be mma fighters.

 

[drbolony]

What Thai got good just because of boxing?? Most elite Thais also train boxing fyi. And good Thai are not rare they dominate Muay Thai, kickboxing, and boxing in their weight classes

I think he means in the scope of MMA and not pure MT.

i don't think his take is different from what the general concensus is on MT and Thai fighters. the thing i don't think he understands, is your stance shouldn't be LOCKED. it should evolve over the course of the fight because the opponent's offense will evolve. there is no stance that will defend everything. but when he says "MT is the best striking base for MMA" i don't really believe that. yes, you have a lot more weapons than other styles, but what he doesn't take into account is that it's A LOT more shit to learn. in MMA, you don't have time to master everything, you gotta go with what you're best at and what you're comfortable with and that will always be different for everyone. the limitations of boxing is true, BUT he says it himself that boxing counters MT a lot. so why would you learn the more complex striking style when i can learn a 1-2 and fold all the guys who are good at doing a million different strikes with 10 different areas of their body?

This all day

 

[avenue94]

I think he means in the scope of MMA and not pure MT.

It's kind of a catch 22 because mma hasn't really received many high level practitioners up until recently, and even then, very few in North America. Suffice to say, there is no shortage of skilled boxers in muay thai, they just haven't really filtered over into mma.

 

[Khaosan]

It's best to learn boxing from a boxer. Then add the other limbs at a Thai Gym.

There are a few slick Thai fighters nowadays, but they are rare and mostly got it from boxing.

Boxing is much more developed in regards to footwork, defense, angles, switches,feints, rhythm, head movement.

 

[Khaosan]

So many ignorant people on traditional Muay Thai here lol.

FOOTWORK!!! HEAD MOVEMENT!!!

 

[skylolow]

Well, it is called Mixed Martial Arts. Every disciplinant has positives and negatives inside an MMA cage or ring.

 

[drbolony]

It's kind of a catch 22 because mma hasn't really received many high level practitioners up until recently, and even then, very few in North America. Suffice to say, there is no shortage of skilled boxers in muay thai, they just haven't really filtered over into mma.

Who are the skilled boxers in MT that aren't making millions on the world stage doing pure boxing?

We don't need the highest level practitioners. Why? To have them beat up on amateur MMA boxers? No. Let's refer to the OP for a great example. Even though Barbosa isn't a pure MT striker, he is more a MT fighter than Gaethje is a boxer, and look how that went?

I think there are styles of MT that are better than other, and the one that produces most of the top fighters focuses heavily on many of the nuances that make boxing so effective.

 

[avenue94]

Who are the skilled boxers in MT that aren't making millions on the world stage doing pure boxing?

I mean, that was kind of my point. Historically, those skilled boxers usually crossed over to boxing.

Even though Barbosa isn't a pure MT striker, he is more a MT fighter than Gaethje is a boxer, and look how that went?

What about Barboza's style screams muay thai to you? If you dropped him into the Thai circuit, his style would stand out quite a bit for its oddity compared to what's usually seen in the sport.

I think there are styles of MT that are better than other, and the one that produces most of the top fighters focuses heavily on many of the nuances that make boxing so effective.

Yes, generally pace and tight defense are most helpful in crossing over due to the emphasis on offense and longer bouts in boxing and mma.

 

[drbolony]

I mean, that was kind of my point. Historically, those skilled boxers usually crossed over to boxing.

What about Barboza's style screams muay thai to you? If you dropped him into the Thai circuit, his style would stand out quite a bit for its oddity compared to what's usually seen in the sport.

Yes, generally pace and tight defense are most helpful in crossing over due to the emphasis on offense and longer bouts in boxing and mma.

Man I had a really good response and my phone refreshed.

As for your last point. I was talking about the Muay Femur style which places emphasis on footwork, timing, range, feints, head movement, and overall trickery. Similar to Boxing.

Then again you seem hell bent in wanting top level MT guys to beat up on amateur MMA boxers. My comparison was between two MMA fighters who have preferred styles.

 

[Safton]

He is ancient in terms of MT. I think those guys are just fighting for the extra cash on top of coaching.

Never said he was young for Muay Thai, or even by MMA standards (much less at at Flyweight). Never saw him becoming a prospect. Just thought he was the best chance of getting a male Thai fighter from a legitimate Muay Thai background (i.e. stadium-ranked and everything at one point) in the UFC in recent history.

 

[markantony20]

What Barbosa does isn’t really MT

Yeah I always saw him a hybrid type striker especially with his TKD spinning shit.

 

[markantony20]

Aldo is almost certainly the greatest antiwrestler of all time and fought with the stance you described. There also isn't just one MT stance, just as is there isn't one boxing stance.

Where do you rank either of the Galaxy brother's boxing? I'm gonna guess you are ignorant of the fact that several MT champions became boxing champions.

These points are true but it is shifting some due to money.

He hasn't fought any pro MT bouts to my knowledge.

Those are just the cliff notes not my opinion I agree with you especially on the Aldo point.

 

[KID Yamamoto]

Plenty of thais have amazing hands. Thais having bad boxing isn't as accurate as people think and just shows a bad understanding of the sport.

 

[Flower2dPeople]

Yeah I always saw him a hybrid type striker especially with his TKD spinning shit.

Brazilian muay thai/kickboxing started out from TKD guys.

 

[avenue94]

Then again you seem hell bent in wanting top level MT guys to beat up on amateur MMA boxers. My comparison was between two MMA fighters who have preferred styles.

I'm down to see as much top level talent filter into mma. It's why most of us got into the sport in the first place, to see different specialists adapt to the mixed rule set.

 

[NoSmilez]

Yeah I always saw him a hybrid type striker especially with his TKD spinning shit.

Brazilian MT kinda has weird origins. For example Chutebox started from a guy who brought it back from Thailand. More or less he learned it while on a vacation. Early MT there was practiced with the TKD gi on.

 

[NoSmilez]

Never said he was young for Muay Thai, or even by MMA standards (much less at at Flyweight). Never saw him becoming a prospect. Just thought he was the best chance of getting a male Thai fighter from a legitimate Muay Thai background (i.e. stadium-ranked and everything at one point) in the UFC in recent history.

I don’t think we are getting young stadium fighters going into MMA. The pathway to transitioning is not there. It is much easier to transition to boxing vs MMA. There is honestly too much to learn for MMA. Smaller weight classes requires guys to be very well rounded too.

 

[Jeandoozz]

well that's pretty mundane analysis... "MT is best striking base for mma because it has elbows" => "MT isn't good form mma because it has squared footwork for mma". I could also say "Kickboxing is best base for mma because it has dynamic footwork" => "Kickboxing isn't good form for mma because it hasn't elbow".

 

[TheMaster]

It's best to learn boxing from a boxer. Then add the other limbs at a Thai Gym.

There are a few slick Thai fighters nowadays, but they are rare and mostly got it from boxing.

Boxing is much more developed in regards to footwork, defense, angles, switches,feints, rhythm, head movement.

Boxing is nothing in MMA, without standing on the shoulders of wrestling, BJJ and Muay Thai.

 

[ILove4MinutesHyuna]

How do elite kick boxer fair vs Thai fighters now days? I remember hearing Rogan talk about how in the early days the Thai's used to fuck up kick boxers with leg kicks.