Media MMA Che: The Problem With Muay Thai in MMA.

[markantony20]

Just came across this vid and I found it interesting how there really haven’t been many pure MT fighters represented at the highest level of MMA.



Cliffs:

— Says MT is the best striking art for MMA.

— Says the MT stance is flawed with its upright and tall posture and light front foot. Wrestlers are able to take advantage of this for an easy takedown.

— Charles Olivera displays a good MT stance because he’s not afraid of being taken down because he’s good of his back.

— MT suffers from underdeveloped boxing and this leads to instances like Barbosa where when pressed on the back foot it forces the MT fighter to rely on their boxing which is not the level of their kicking.

— Thai Nak Muay don’t compete in MMA because MMA doesn’t have the same “honourable” status in Thai culture and MMA isn’t that popular in Thailand.

—MT fighters fight much more frequently than MMA fighters or Boxers leading to many MT fighters to retire early due to damage accumulated.

—if Thais start training MMA at the same age as they normally start training MT they would be a very strong force in MMA.





So what do you guys think? This guy got a point, or is he ignorant of factors?

 

[World eater]

Sure, he has valid points. But starting mma early is not as easy in a culture that is so entrenched in stand-up fighting. Even if it was somehow possible to do on a larger scale (like bringing in trainers for wrestling/grappling) it would require many years until it could give desired results. He is also right that in Thailand there is a lot of prestige and honour traditionally associated with MT and that is not going to change.
It is better to just add small gloves MT to mma events like One does. Those fights are fire.

 

[markantony20]

Sure, he has valid points. But starting mma early is not as easy in a culture that is so entrenched in stand-up fighting. Even if it was somehow possible to do on a larger scale (like bringing in trainers for wrestling/grappling) it would require many years until it could give desired results. He is also right that in Thailand there is a lot of prestige and honour traditionally associated with MT and that is not going to change.
It is better to just add small gloves MT to mma events like One does. Those fights are fire.

Fully agree.

I think it would be hard to convince fighters to adopt a style of fighting they’re completely unfamiliar with.

And also they would have to bring in some seriously good wrestling and BJJ coaches to help improve in those areas.

 

[Harlekin]

It's best to learn boxing from a boxer. Then add the other limbs at a Thai Gym.

There are a few slick Thai fighters nowadays, but they are rare and mostly got it from boxing.

Boxing is much more developed in regards to footwork, defense, angles, switches,feints, rhythm, head movement.

 

[World eater]

Fully agree.

I think it would be hard to convince fighters to adopt a style of fighting they’re completely unfamiliar with.

And also they would have to bring in some seriously good wrestling and BJJ coaches to help improve in those areas.

Another thing to bear in mind is the use of kicks, especially mid kicks and high kicks. Most karate and kickboxing fighters will use fast kicks - rotate the standing leg, raise the kicking leg bent at the knee and whiplash with the lower part of the kicking leg. This allows the fighter to regain balance faster. Most MT fighters, on the other hand, rotate the standing leg and then swing full force the kicking leg like a scythe without blending the knee. This is a more powerful kick, but if it misses it rotates your body out of balance. In a MT fight it’s not as big a deal because they are crazy fast with repositioning, spinning backfists and elbows, but in an mma fight a good opponent could easily go for a TD. These kicks are probably MT’s strongest weapon, would be hard to “unlearn” this just to be better at mma.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

i don't think his take is different from what the general concensus is on MT and Thai fighters. the thing i don't think he understands, is your stance shouldn't be LOCKED. it should evolve over the course of the fight because the opponent's offense will evolve. there is no stance that will defend everything. but when he says "MT is the best striking base for MMA" i don't really believe that. yes, you have a lot more weapons than other styles, but what he doesn't take into account is that it's A LOT more shit to learn. in MMA, you don't have time to master everything, you gotta go with what you're best at and what you're comfortable with and that will always be different for everyone. the limitations of boxing is true, BUT he says it himself that boxing counters MT a lot. so why would you learn the more complex striking style when i can learn a 1-2 and fold all the guys who are good at doing a million different strikes with 10 different areas of their body?

 

[jko1355]

This is a basic point of view and should be in the striking technique section of this forum... that said muay Thai is a great base and is trained by almost all mixed martial artists. What we have learned over the last 30 years is to take what works for mma from all martial arts. Wrestle boxers were the norm because they have a similar stance.... now everyone has a good low kick, good boxing, a lower stance to defend wrestling.... it all works but none of the martial arts can do it all.

 

[SalvadorAllende]

Yeah.. Muay Thai stance does not do a lot of favors against grapplers. They have to adapt quite a bit.

It would be interesting to see those dudes fighting MT with 4oz gloves in ONE FC transition to MMA.

 

[Safton]

We had a chance at getting a Thai male fighter from a decently high-level competitive MT foundation in Topnoi Kiwram, but he shit the bed twice in a row on Road to UFC.

 

[markantony20]

i don't think his take is different from what the general concensus is on MT and Thai fighters. the thing i don't think he understands, is your stance shouldn't be LOCKED. it should evolve over the course of the fight because the opponent's offense will evolve. there is no stance that will defend everything. but when he says "MT is the best striking base for MMA" i don't really believe that. yes, you have a lot more weapons than other styles, but what he doesn't take into account is that it's A LOT more shit to learn. in MMA, you don't have time to master everything, you gotta go with what you're best at and what you're comfortable with and that will always be different for everyone. the limitations of boxing is true, BUT he says it himself that boxing counters MT a lot. so why would you learn the more complex striking style when i can learn a 1-2 and fold all the guys who are good at doing a million different strikes with 10 different areas of their body?

I agree. Fights are dynamic and being ridged in any aspect is detrimental be it a boxing match, MT bout or MMA bout.

 

[markantony20]

This is a basic point of view and should be in the striking technique section of this forum...

I am retarded tbf.


I just thought since it pertained to specific fighters like Olivera, Edson, & Khalil it would be appropriate.

But you’re right and I’m sorry.

 

[markantony20]

Yeah.. Muay Thai stance does not do a lot of favors against grapplers. They have to adapt quite a bit.

It would be interesting to see those dudes fighting MT with 4oz gloves in ONE FC transition to MMA.

Honestly I’m surprised that the highest level Farang Nak Muay like Haggerty haven’t transitioned into MMA.

It seems they have good reason to transition like the pay increase or more exposure though I guess if they really wanted that they would probably go into boxing for obvious reasons I guess they just really love their sport and that’s pretty admirable imo.

 

[markantony20]

We had a chance at getting a Thai male fighter from a decently high-level competitive MT foundation in Topnoi Kiwram, but he shit the bed twice in a row on Road to UFC.

MMA is brutal man, one of if not the most dynamic of all combat sports.

 

[ticho123]

When you add kicks to boxing they completely take over, causing the MT upright stance. But then when you add wrestling the kicks are canceled out, becoming much rarer because of the takedown threat. So the stance and movement in MMA loops around and becomes more similar to boxing.

With that said I feel like there's quite a lot of kickboxers/MT style fighters at the top right now. Of course they're somewhat well rounded but that's true for almost every fighter at the very highest level.

 

[NoSmilez]

What Barbosa does isn’t really MT

 

[NoSmilez]

We had a chance at getting a Thai male fighter from a decently high-level competitive MT foundation in Topnoi Kiwram, but he shit the bed twice in a row on Road to UFC.

He is ancient in terms of MT. I think those guys are just fighting for the extra cash on top of coaching.

 

[PrideNverDies]

It's best to learn boxing from a boxer. Then add the other limbs at a Thai Gym.

There are a few slick Thai fighters nowadays, but they are rare and mostly got it from boxing.

Boxing is much more developed in regards to footwork, defense, angles, switches,feints, rhythm, head movement.

What Thai got good just because of boxing?? Most elite Thais also train boxing fyi. And good Thai are not rare they dominate Muay Thai, kickboxing, and boxing in their weight classes

 

[tramendous]

Jon jones
Alex pereira
Adesanya
Leon edwards
Aldo

These are just some of the fighters whos striking style has been closer to muay thai than boxing. Boxing just synergizes better with wrestling and lots of American fighters know wrestling so they add in boxing. The bjj guys who arent afraid of getting taken down, do more muay thai in their striking.

 

[avenue94]

— Says the MT stance is flawed with its upright and tall posture and light front foot. Wrestlers are able to take advantage of this for an easy takedown.

Aldo is almost certainly the greatest antiwrestler of all time and fought with the stance you described. There also isn't just one MT stance, just as is there isn't one boxing stance.

— MT suffers from underdeveloped boxing and this leads to instances like Barbosa where when pressed on the back foot it forces the MT fighter to rely on their boxing which is not the level of their kicking.

Where do you rank either of the Galaxy brother's boxing? I'm gonna guess you are ignorant of the fact that several MT champions became boxing champions.

— Thai Nak Muay don’t compete in MMA because MMA doesn’t have the same “honourable” status in Thai culture and MMA isn’t that popular in Thailand.

—MT fighters fight much more frequently than MMA fighters or Boxers leading to many MT fighters to retire early due to damage accumulated.

—if Thais start training MMA at the same age as they normally start training MT they would be a very strong force in MMA.

These points are true but it is shifting some due to money.

— Charles Olivera displays a good MT stance because he’s not afraid of being taken down because he’s good of his back.

He hasn't fought any pro MT bouts to my knowledge.

 

[avenue94]

What Barbosa does isn’t really MT

It's interesting that even pretty hardcore fans still lump together muay thai, Brazilian kickboxing and Dutch kickboxing at this point just because they are all striking sports.