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Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Thai Domi, Jun 16, 2016.
This is correct.
30-06 is a classic round, I know several competitive shooters who blast 6.5, 7mm mag, 300wsm ect for comps but when it's time to hunt small game they pull out a 30-06 that has probably killed an elk or deer every season for several decades.
The round works.
I'll be curious to see how the army implements this round into the inventory. I also don't think it's a NATO round, and because the shoulder is so steep, it is more susceptible to stoppages - least I think so, I've got a bolt gun 6.5Cr and it doesn't have issues but I also baby it.
Either way it goes down 308 will likely be used in both gas/bolt sniper systems for a long time to come.
My first rifle, the 30-06 Weatherby Mark V (a 1906 caliber) - bolt action. I was 18 and saved the money to buy it. I still have it. It had a fixed sight and scope configuration, but I always enjoyed the fixed sights better. More fun to shoot. I never shot any game with it. You can go from a 55 grain bullet to a 220. So, you can shoot rabbits and bears. People have used it for both rhino and elephant kills. But my favorite caliber is still the .22LR. Bolt action rifle. Fixed sight. Also, I completely dislike handguns. Not sure why. It just seems so puny.
I don't think you use fixed sights in sniper school any more do you? Do you work your way up to a scope or just start with a scope?
Why the Military is Looking into the 6.5 Creedmoor
"Right off the bat, it’s crystal clear why Special Operations Command would and could turn to this cartridge as an alternative to existing ammo. The cartridge was introduced in 2008 as one of the first and best cartridges for long range shooting."
"At the time, there weren’t a lot of civilians shooting long range, but in recent years, the company has seen demand grow, and grow as manufacturers continue to put out more and more affordable long range rifles. Today, it is the go-to cartridge for many competitive shooters."
I started with a scope, after we shot in on iron sights, we used moa dot 3-16 (I think), on a 308 bolt gun, then moved to a nightforce 5-20 Horus, h58 on a 300wm, in between we used the sass - ar10, I seem to remember having to use a mil rad as well. There was a big push to get away from dialing dope inside of ~600. So we held over and used the Horus reticle for windage. That's basically the only way I shot now, dial for the longer shots, still hold winds. Now with the tremor3 it's quite easy. If you know the wind dot values you essentially will not have to do any wind formula math. Not saying you should not know how to calculate and judge winds but the dots help.
6.5cr is great, and they call it right the civilian long range shooting community is ahead of the military community but we're catching up.
Someone told me you get more accuracy with a 'suppressor'. Is that really true? I would think it would be the other way around, a suppressor taking away energy from a bullet. Not a 'flash' suppressor, but a 'silencer'. Any suppressors in sniper school? Do you guys use 'pantyhose' on the front of the scope to cut down on sun glare (reflection) - to enemy position?
SunGuard anti-glare technology to camouflage optics and cut the glare.
Definitely use screening to cover the scope glass, bunch of different techniques, when it comes to adding vegation it's best to use natural elements, like rubber banding grass around the scope lens.
Suppressors can add muzzle velocity, which should increase accuracy. It's not indicative of all suppressors tough. In my experience it's definitely trail to determine what the can is doing. In general the suppressors I use personally and that are in the military will help overall. However, some are so worn down that they actually hurt accuracy.
The whole suppressor thing still does not make much sense to me. If that is true, why aren't rifle manufacturers selling their rifles with suppressors built into it?
What is this configuration? Is that a night vision sight in front of the scope? A lot of extra weight...
Some are but the legalities of suppressors provide a problem.
Yes that's a nvg, on a sass, looks like a NF scope.
What legalities? To my surprise it has been legal for some years now. Well, at least in Oklahoma. Check out this site. These guys sell silencers over the internet for every caliber you can think of:
Gemtech Shield 5.56NATO Blk, price: $1,000
Yeah you can own them but it takes a tax stamp for instance the timeline on my next suppressor is about 12 months, $200 extra dollars. So the entire can costs me about $500.
It's just a pain overall and expensive.
Good movie: The Hunted - 2003. Tommy Lee Jones and Benicio del Toro. SERE with good knife combat scenes.
I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the mass production thing, is it really cost effective to produce weapons with a suppressor when your actual market is fairly small instead of producing something that could accept the suppressor, that and I'm sure the finite usage of the suppressors has something to do with it as well.
The only problem I had with the movie and I know it's kind of a geek stance was them making the cast iron knives in the field using the sand molds. Those would be some of the most brittle blades ever, not to mention I doubt he could get the metal that hot without a heavy duty blower.
The knife fighting was bullshit...alot of slashes. I cant speak for other people here but my training involved penetration of vital areas (giggity!), not crossing veins/arteries and hoping you have cut deep enough...which would then take the enemy minutes to bleed out from lol
that's interesting, I did some knife training with an ex-Israeli guy and it involved a lot of slashing to weaken and put the opponent on the defensive then go in for the penetration wounds to vital organs. According to him it was based on a "funneling system" where you worked your way down to one of three "kill points". It basically worked at working from the outside in, cut at the hands, especially the opponents blade hand, work up the arms them go for vitals, normally the lungs or just under the sternum to the heart, the only "kill" slashing was to the neck. The slashes (other than neck of course) were pretty much set ups, the ultimate goal was the kill. I also practiced with a HEMA "historical European Martial arts" group (at the time it was a different group called ARMA "association of renaissance martial arts") at the end we almost always suited up and did some knife fighting and his stuff worked pretty well in a live sparring scenario, not the real thing so I can't give it five stars but it seemed good to me.
Funny part about the HEMA group, everyone pretty much made their own "body armor" which was mostly old TKD sparring pads, fencing masks, hockey helmets and stuff. We had one really crazy Russian guy that was obsessed with knife fighting. He'd bring all kinds of studies about knife fighting from various situations like combat, prison fights and such; they all pretty much supported your penetration over slashing for maximum effect. Anyway, this crazy bastard had a TKD break away board for his chest plate, an old life jacket for his "body armor" a welders jacket for arm protection, some old lacrosse gloves for his hands, hockey pants and the bottom half of a suit that looked like one of those attack dog training suits, to top it off he had this "helmet" that looked like something out of a Road Warrior movie that he must have put together himself. All I could say this is an outfit "only a Russian" would put together. That shit had to be hot as hell.
also kudos on the giggity!
I can appreciate it as a martial art and obviously there will be elements that are feasible in real-time. But for argument's sake let's say there are 2 scenario's for using a knife within the military:
1- when it is a last resort while in combat
2-to silently eliminate a threat
For both of those incidents it is priority to destroy the person in as quick a time as possible; take out the target as fast as possible and move on. That means airway/heart/lungs/spleen...even cutting through the carotid arteries isn't necessarily going to take out a threat quick enough to prevent raising the alarm (the human body has 4 carotids, 2 'internal' and 2 'external')
Edit: if you like knives you might find this interesting, WW2 commando discussing the commando dagger
great stuff, it amazes me some of these old timers the information and experience they have.
You are correct about the 2 scenarios in a military application, The longer you putz around the more likely the other guy's buddies are going to come up on you without you seeing them since tunnel vision sets in. The situation we were being taught was probably a lot more fantasy than anything. It was based on two dude squaring up and pulling knives which isn't too practical, because honestly if I'm pulling a knife on someone I'm going to try and conceal it and strike before they ever know I had it or if they did notice it, it was too late. The Russian guy in the HEMA group was obsessed with "prison scenarios" which was interesting and insightful, although a little disturbing. Almost sounded like he was aching for a return to the "good old days of the bitch wars in Russian prisons"
One funny thing I did discover is that adrenalin makes those shock knives pretty useless as a training tool, when it really gets going you don't really notice them.
Well, that's Hollywood for you. The fact that they are both working on making a knife at the same time and that the 'metal' knife takes as long to make as the 'stone' knife. Also, the fact that you have a civilian instructor (contractor) who has never been in the military teaching knife fighting techniques to military personnel. Special Operations guy who goes 'missing' or is 'dead' is also somewhat farfetched. They would have gotten him a new identity.
I was never too concerned about knifes in a fight. A belt, or strap, with a heavy buckle in one end could disarm an assailant easily. Not to mention that your leg is longer than your arm. Unless they sneak up on you from behind.
The part of the movie I liked was the relationship developed between the student and the instructor (LT). Not sure why the instructor decided to break contact with his former student. That would have saved a few lives in the process of getting the bad guy apprehended.
A few Rangers carried a hatched (tomahawk) into theater. Part of their history dating back to 1755.