Military Roll Call! Veterans, GTFIH! | Page 90

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Thai Domi, Jun 16, 2016.

  1. SMillard Red Belt

    SMillard
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    I can see it. It kind of reminds me of when I was in college, I found it easier to take my math courses over the Summer terms. I found the condensed intensity to be more conducive to learning things I had a hard time with. Simple fact was when I only went to my college algebra class two or three times a week I found myself not commiting. I could see the same thing, especially since you are talking about people going into it piecemeal. Imagine doing the initial part, taking a few months maybe up to a year later doing the next phase, you basically have to stay in the same level of fitness to complete the course over a two to three year period longer than you did if you did it straight through. It would seem to me to be like maintaining your pre competition fight training over an extended period of time instead of just eight weeks out from a contest. It would wear on you psychologically and physically, add to that you have to do correspondence courses and at home work while maintaining your regular civilian job.

    I know that a large component of the PJs in the air force are attached to reserve units, I don't know if they do a reserve modified pipeline. in fact the unit that picked up Travis Luttrell was a reserve unit. Speaking of the SAS, don't they have a reserve unit training as well? I know Bear Grylls was a reserve SAS, although I heard they aren't regarded as highly as the "regular army SAS" I don't know if they still have it. The FFL on the other hand, that's a whole different story. I've read some stories about that, some are a little crazy, but from what I've read you can't join the para regiment until your second enlistment and each of their enlistments are five years each. I think the same with their jungle training/unit which is in French Guyana. Heard that was pretty brutal, I was watching one thing about their obstacle course a Marine unit did it and it took them 8 hours to complete, then again the SEALs are not allowed to submit an official team in the eco challenge anymore since the couple years they tried they failed to complete, to rub salt in the wound a team of playboy bunnies ran it the one of the years the SEALs tried and they finished.
     
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  2. Phr3121 Brown Belt

    Phr3121
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    To me the FFL is the last 'bastion' of elite training and forces. The majority of legionnaires are not French and enter the program without knowing French. A good number of them are criminals and some don't know how to read and write. They come from all over the world. Some to hide. It has been this way for over 150 years. The cadre still hazes and training is pretty brutal. If they don't know French, they have a limited amount of time to learn it or get out. The French government and the French Army does not care much for them if they get killed in action. They are not French. But it is a route to French citizenship. You have some legitimate 'bad asses' in the Legion that you will not find in the SAS, SF, or SEALs. I'm always thankful to the French for helping the colonists fight and beat the British during the Revolutionary war. We gave the French shit and laughed at them prior to the Iraq invasion, but they turned out to be right. ...and the French women, truly beautiful and sensual.
     
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  3. SMillard Red Belt

    SMillard
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    They stopped taking the criminals a few years back. They have a little bit of a checkered past, in Vietnam they widely used former German SS troopers, since they had an inundation of recruits trying to escape their past. I know a French citizen can't join, but if you fulfill at least one enlistment you get French citizenship. You're right, they don't care about them and basically they are an expendable asset. One thing I've heard and read from a couple of anecdotal sources was that people have to be careful because they tax their pay, but don't take all the tax out as they go so when people go to ETS they have to pay their back taxes. Basically a cute little ploy to get people to stay in. On the bright side if you do 15 years you get to go retire to their vineyard and learn how to make wine.

    The French did help us a lot, some of it was to stick it to England and the other part was the romanticism of the "wild Frontier" Americans. I always thought it was hilarious that Benjamin Franklin would actually show up to French parties in a coonskin cap and "frontier clothing" despite the fact he never actually wore that stuff in the colonies. Part of it was to play up to the character of what the French had romanticised and the other part was to get some action from the French women.

    I'll have to take your word on the French women, closest thing I ever had was girl that was French (mother) and Hungarian (father). She was a pain in the ass, the accent was pretty hot though.
     
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  4. Phr3121 Brown Belt

    Phr3121
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    I must be getting old, military requirements have not only changed in the U.S. over the years, but other countries as well. The FFL was renowned for taking in foreigners with a checkered past. They made the best soldiers. WWII German troops used in Vietnam? How old were they? You can join the FFL as a Frenchman. Citizenship does not matter. Franklin was well known for being a womanizer. French girls are beautiful, but not all. I guess it is the same case in most countries. Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Norway also have beautiful women. I could listen to a women speaking French all day long without understanding a single word of it. It is a beautiful language. Unlike German and Russian.

    "I don't care who my enemy is as long as I have one to kill."
    [​IMG]
     
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  5. SMillard Red Belt

    SMillard
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    http://foreignlegion.info/joining/
    This was nice little summary of their requirements and such. I'd always heard you couldn't be a French citizen or you had to renounce your French citizenship, that may have been old info or wrong. I know they formed the legion basically as an expedient means of immigration control and a military manpower solution for outposting the French colonies. After reading the site I listed above I found out enlisted legionnaires could become officers, I thought it was only regular French Army officers that commanded, especially after the whole "day of the Condor" thing which resulted in the dissolving of the 1st Para regiment.

    As far as the Germans in Vietnam, you have to remember the French fighting in Vietnam/indochina was shortly after the end of WW II, it went from 1946 to 1954. So you'd have the pretty battle hardened in their prime SS troopers at that point. Here's a decent article about it https://www.wearethemighty.com/arti...-legion-in-world-war-ii-was-filled-with-nazis

    Franklin was a trip, definitely a more interesting character than he's given credit for, and he's given a lot of credit for a lot of things most of which is deserved.

    I agree about women speaking French, I also feel the same way about Spanish. Italian is a nice one too. I have preference for Latin women and nothing turned me on more than to have them speak Spanish when they are trying to be seductive or in bed. German, Russian and most Slavic languages are pretty harsh especially coming out of a woman's mouth. I took three years of German in high school and we had a guest speaker and he really pissed off the German teacher, I'm paraphrasing this because it's been 30 years but it was something like "English is the language you use to talk to business associates, French is the language you use to talk to your lover and German is the language you use to talk to your dog" The German teacher didn't appreciate that one too much.
     
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  6. Lastofthemohican Green Belt

    Lastofthemohican
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    I have a few friends in the 2nd rep who were kicked out of my old unit for fighting too many times when out drinking. they said its utter dogshit. Training is not hard when in it, nor to get in. The legion is built upon its 'legend' from the 50s. And you can be a french citizen and join, they simply change your nationality to french canadian or swiss when you join.
     
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  7. SMillard Red Belt

    SMillard
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    Out of curiosity, do you know how often they actually jump? One thing that kind of struck me about the FFL is they are reliant on others for logistics and transport so I often wondered how that affected their training and coordination with other services.

    Also if you're in the legion happy Camarone day!
     
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  8. Lastofthemohican Green Belt

    Lastofthemohican
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    I was British military but did some training alongside them years ago. Their range day consisted of being given 10 rounds of ammo due to their low budget lol.

    Cant remember how often they jump Perhaps i sound overly harsh But I wanted to dispel any notion that they are elite. Unique yes elite no
     
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  9. soILL618 Green Belt

    soILL618
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    They seemed like regular army infantry to me, that's at best. The French have a bad rep some rightfully so, some entirely undeserved. Their air supported us on plenty of ops and did very well.

    Prior legion guy, who was on a team with me, had ~25 jumps over 4 years (static line). If that helps frame their air capability. That's around what an 82nd paratrooper might get, barring deployments.
     
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  10. Rozko Brown Belt

    Rozko
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    Listening to these back to back while traveling today was brutal



     
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  11. Phr3121 Brown Belt

    Phr3121
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    Sorry, have to disagree with that statement. FFL is elite and unique. The Legion is the most decorated Regiment in the French Armed Forces. French military doctrine:

    "Special forces are units capable of conducting autonomous missions of highly hostile nature, within a time frame that can stretch from a few hours to several weeks, with very limited personnel against a large number of superior enemy."

    Considering the military doctrine of the French Army, which the Legion is an integrated part of, there are no Special Forces in the Foreign Legion. Many people consider the FFL itself an ‘elite' force, in the way that the U.S. Army 75th Ranger Battalion is considered to be an ‘elite' force.

    The GCP (Groupe de Commandos Parachutistes) of the 2ème REP, are an elite unit within the FFL. The 2nd Foreign Parachute Regiment are not only the most selective of the Foreign Legion Regiments, they are the spearhead of France’s Rapid Reaction Force.

    Special selection and training is what makes any soldier and unit 'elite' in any country that has them. "All men are equal, but some men are more equal than others."

    The 2nd Foreign Parachute Regiment of the French Foreign Legion
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. SMillard Red Belt

    SMillard
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    They are very unique, I've always wondered why more countries didn't incorporate something like this, especially the US in that they take foreigners in and create a very specific military force out of them, hell I'm surprised the US has never toyed with the idea of a foreign national international work force and military force as a quick path to citizenship. Coincidentally since yesterday was Camerone day, the Mexicans did it with a large number of Irish immigrants but never expanded beyond that during the Mexican American war. Despite the fact the Irish regiments fought with distinction.
    I don't know enough about them to say one way or the other about the "elite" moniker compared to other units. In this case it would almost seem to be that they are as much disposable as elite, as we've already discussed. One thing they have going for them is a lot of their ranks are filled with ex-service members from other countries which has to be a very good contributor to their abilities to some degree.

    As far as the number of jumps the 2nd para make based on what @soILL618 said, that's better than I expected. We all get a hard on for the "elite" aspect but everyone forgets about the logistical and support elements such as the planes needed for the jumps. I remember an old 60 Minutes story about the FFL and basically it went on about how unique they were but at the very end it was basically saying they are reliant on others to get where they are going and for logistical support. That's one thing that would bother me, also why I understand where the Marines come from where they basically try to be as self sufficient as possible.
     
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  13. Sir GymTanLaundry Brown Belt

    Sir GymTanLaundry
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    Ehh FFL. You don’t see French forces being called to go after Bin Laden do ya. Shit needs gettin done you call the US.
     
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  14. Phr3121 Brown Belt

    Phr3121
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    Why would the French go after Bin Laden? Did they have a 9/11?
     
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  15. Phr3121 Brown Belt

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    Yes, the USMC has flight support built into their branch. Never saw the need for Marine pilots (jets, not helicopter) when the U.S. Navy has plenty of pilots. Plus, the USMC has always been in a sorry state of affairs relying on the U.S. Navy budget. U.S. Navy SEALs don't go anywhere on land without U.S. Army aviation support. A few U.S. Air Force gunships.

    In Land warfare the only thing the U.S. Navy and U.S. Air Force can support is airstrikes. Every branch of the U.S. military wants a piece of the pie when it comes to war. But as I have mentioned many times before, we fight for land, not water or air. The U.S. Navy and the U.S. Air Force have always supported what is happening on the ground with soldiers and Marines. Casualty numbers prove that.

    The French have also been one of the few countries that is self reliant when it comes to building their military arsenal. Tanks, planes, ships, rifles, nuclear reactors, etc. They don't normally buy U.S. or Russian equipment, they make their own. They sucked during WWII but kicked ass when Napoleon was in charge.
     
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  16. Lastofthemohican Green Belt

    Lastofthemohican
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    I have 2 friends in the 2 rep as I said- they are not special forces...in any way shape or form. There is an SF style unit within the legion itself. If you are talking about selection within the military being elite then yes..but you can go into 2rep straight from basic training...which as you know is different from the GCP.

    The word elite gets bandied about a little too much IMO, and i certainly wouldnt put the FFL anywhere near the standard as the 75th ranger regiment and Ive worked/trained alongside both (as a brit soldier)
     
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  17. Phr3121 Brown Belt

    Phr3121
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    Well, I don't know that your two friends are a reliable source since they got kicked out of your old unit and the FFL. People who get 'kicked out' of something or 'fired' from work usually have nothing good to say about their old unit or employer.

    I don't know about the FFL soldiers and Rangers soldiers you trained with, but a Legionnaire is not like your average U.S. Army soldier out of basic training. Rangers are nothing more than 'glorified' Infantry soldiers. They too, Battalion, have 'fuck-ups' like any other unit in the U.S. Army. Lower enlisted who are not even Ranger qualified.
     
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  18. Lastofthemohican Green Belt

    Lastofthemohican
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    Lol my mates were kicked out of my first unit- 45 commando, for fighting multiple times when drunk and being arrested. They were not kicked out of the legion- i last heard off one about a year ago. Probably after the 6-7th time of being arrested and brought back to camp the CO had had enough. A legionnaire IS a basic soldier out of training, have you never read or seen their requirements to become a legionnaire?
     
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  19. Phr3121 Brown Belt

    Phr3121
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    No, they are not a basic soldier. Not like in the U.S. Army. I would say that 50% or higher already have previous military experience. The ones joining are more mercenaries than regular U.S. recruits. They have to learn French. As I mentioned before, they are running away from something. Why are they given a new identity?

    Their 15 weeks at basic training is unlike the U.S. Army's basic training. Initial instruction:

    . Adaptation to “on-the-field” military life. Language training - 4 weeks

    . “March of the White Képi” - 1 week

    . Technical and hands-on training - 3 weeks

    . Mountain training - 1 week

    . Technical and hands-on training - 2 weeks

    . Exams, elementary technical certificate (CTE) issued - 1 week

    . Trek and walk in the final stages of basic training - 1 week

    . Car/truck driving instruction - 1 week

    . Back to Aubagne for assignment - 1 week

    "Since Algeria, where the Legion was involved in the torture and other barbarities that severely tarnished the reputation of the French army, it has evolved into a rapid reaction force, deployed in a succession of African states where French national interests have been deemed to be at stake. Most modern recruits serve for five years, though some endure fifteen. Every man who completes his time becomes eligible for French citizenship."

    "Most of us would find it incomprehensible that a man should choose to accept the aridity and crushing loneliness of Legion life, more austere than that of any ordinary Western soldier. The Legion is merely one among several elites, its combat ethos having much in common with that of the British Parachute Regiment, the US Marine Corps, and airborne formations. The Legion’s toughness and ruthlessness are indisputable, but there is no reason to suppose that it has produced better warriors than those of other crack units."
     
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  20. Lastofthemohican Green Belt

    Lastofthemohican
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    Mate Im not even asking you what they're like it is me saying it how it is.... this isnt stuff I have read it is what I have seen and experienced and have friends currently in the Unit...not really sure why you want to make them seem like something they are not. I have also worked with them in the private sector, and while nice guys, they certainly did not consider themselves elite. I have also worked with guys who were ex british paras and then legion and vice versa. Though they were proud of their legion time they are always the first to admit it was shite in comparison with any modern military unit.

    You can break down their 'training' as you wish but it is extremely basic. Only their sergeant navigates with a map and compass and therefore they are just walking over the mountains.
     
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