Karate throws | Page 5

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Hotora86, Jun 16, 2016.

  1. DanTheWolfman.com Brown Belt

    DanTheWolfman.com
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    I often live in Japan, I've fought in two Daidojuku World Championships, I trained 3 months w Lyoto and Chinzo, one of my students has 35 yrs of Judo and trains w Koga (Gold and Silver) rest of the week and travels 1 hr each way by subway to learn Newaza from me (he is pretty good already) etc so I see different aspects and guys w different backgrounds. Others include Sambo coach and 100 kg Combat Wrestling Champion. I've done randori starting from feet to ground No Gi w Gold Olympians Takimoto and Ishii

    P.s. I still think the Enshin book is one of best MA books I have ever seen and used to correspond w the founder of Sabaki

    How about Max Holloway hitting this twice recently or Lyoto vs Judoka Nakamura


    I found my Daidojuku footage-4 takedowns or counters to mount or rear mount in 3 min fight


    Haters will not realize the Japanese guys are Pro Pancrase and Deep fighters, including the bigger guy
     
    #81
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2017
  2. DanTheWolfman.com Brown Belt

    DanTheWolfman.com
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    P.S. Kamaru UsmanFB friend broke into a janga than did a Yama Tsuki double mountain punch in UFC this weekend yet commentators or no one else noticed,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
     
    #82
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  3. Hotora86 火虎 空手道

    Hotora86
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    What... what? Huh? Pics? Confused.
     
    #83
  4. DanTheWolfman.com Brown Belt

    DanTheWolfman.com
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    Best I can do is me doing it 5 times in light sparring, u would have to watch his fight thought u would want to know. where do u live?
     
    #84
  5. Hotora86 火虎 空手道

    Hotora86
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    Poland. :)

    You meant this tech?

    [​IMG]

    Wanna see it done by Usman. Got a timestamp? Which round?
     
    #85
  6. DanTheWolfman.com Brown Belt

    DanTheWolfman.com
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    Yes watch the fight, he broke into a Capoara Janga for a second then attempted it
     
    #86
  7. Hotora86 火虎 空手道

    Hotora86
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    Capoeira Ginga you mean? :)
    [​IMG]

    Which round plz?
     
    #87
  8. Hotora86 火虎 空手道

    Hotora86
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    #88
  9. Thycidides Blue Belt

    Thycidides
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    This is kind of pedantic of me but... when I asked about throws I meant hip/ shoulder throws. I noticed there are not any hip throws in the wkf video , mostly what I see are people catching a kick and then sweeping the leg. But in the video you posted before hip/ shoulder throws where shown.

    I'd like to see some example of karate fighters using hip throws in tournaments and remaining upright. Maybe Ian Abernathy has done so ?
     
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  10. Edison Carasio Excellence of execution belt

    Edison Carasio
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    I'm not a karateka but I will try to answer. You're not gonna see a lot of hip throws in Karate because I don't think karateka would find them to be very complimentary to karate philosophy or approach to fighting. A hip throw is a very committed technique, glueing yourself to the other person. If you notice the favoring of foot sweeps and trips leaves means you have to "commit" less to the technique and even if it "fails" you are in position to deliver the finishing blow possibly. Like I try to sweep you, you just stumble and lose balance but don't go down, I can still deliver that one clean "finishing blow". In line with the "one strike one kill" mentality you see emphasized in the rules of competition karate. But a hip throw doesn't allow this philosophy. If you're throw is no good, then you can't follow up and your back is compromised. Karate tai sabaki/foot work/body positioning lends itself better to the sweep or trip.
     
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  11. RJ Green YAY JUDO!!!

    RJ Green
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    yeah, that looks somewhere between sukui nage and like...kosotogari? i guess?

    what color is this dress?
     
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  12. MarcoW Bojacked Horsehungman

    MarcoW
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    If you practice any Okinawan Karate you should realize that takedowns and sweeps are built right in to the foundation layer - kata.

    In Goju Ryu the first kata students learn has a basic sweep built right in.

     
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  13. CFGroup Blue Belt

    CFGroup
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    Gekisai Dai Ichi has the same block/strike opening technique as TKD TaeGeuk Il Poomsea but a high block...

    It's really cool that within the larger techniques the detail lies in the nuance of subtle power projection in the body movements like in the way Goju throws only the hip in a front kick where TKD rotates the shoulder and hip.

    A cool mobility technique is that moving forward without stepping with the toe to heel rotation...

    Great art!
     
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  14. Hotora86 火虎 空手道

    Hotora86
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    @Edison Carasio gave a great answer, thanks Edison.

    Hip throws are taught but in competition I haven't seen any. Foot sweeps and trips are way easier, faster, less risky etc. Hip to hip contact during unbalancing is common, like in the gif I posted.
    [​IMG]
     
    #94
  15. Hotora86 火虎 空手道

    Hotora86
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    Kosotogari definitely not (though such sweeps are common otherwise). I don't think there is an exact match in Judo or Aikido actually. If leg grabbing was part of the technique then it would be like Sukui Nage but the whole point is to not got down too much.

    It's actually somewhat similar to the Capoeira Vingativa!

     
    #95
  16. Hotora86 火虎 空手道

    Hotora86
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    Great example, easy to learn, self-defense applicable.
     
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  17. Thycidides Blue Belt

    Thycidides
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    If that is the case I think some of these videos are misleading because they make it seem like hip throws are common In karate tournaments and a key aspect of the practice. However, it sounds like they are the type of move that is maybe shown once a month or so and no one really focuses on.
     
    #97
  18. Hotora86 火虎 空手道

    Hotora86
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    Let me answer like this - Karate has always been a "mixed" martial art, happily borrowing from original Okinawan wrestling styles, Japanese and Chinese arts and from everything that seemed useful. Karate masters traveled distances to cross-train, learn and spar, always looking to gain knowledge and enrich their repertoire of techniques. Funakoshi himself felt the same way, as exemplified by his friendship with Kano and including Judo throws in what later became known as Shotokan.

    The hip throws are just one of the many techniques Karate masters found to be useful - in specific situations. They are common in other martial arts, they really work, they aren't hard to learn and train - so Karateka should know how to do them and how to defend against them. That's the point. In Karate sparring - due to the specific stances, commonly used techniques and rules - hip throws are not the main focus. It's hard to "enter" into the technique without being hit first and it's relatively easy to defend by keeping your distance (if you know the opponent wants to throw you).

    The end result is - as you mentioned "the type of move that is maybe shown once a month or so and no one really focuses on". However I firmly believe that training it once a month is still way better than not training it at all.

    Many techniques are either banned or uncommon in Shotokan Karate competition - knees, elbows, low kicks. So should they be trained? YES, YES and YES!! All three are common, they work and knowing them is essential for self-defense. Rules may limit what we can do in competition but they should never limit what we can learn, train, defend and USE if needed!
     
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  19. Thycidides Blue Belt

    Thycidides
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    You are contradicting yourself here. If a move is hard to do in sparring than it is hard to learn. It seems to me if someone can't land a hip throw in a sparring context than they really don't know how to do the move.

    A lot of these karate grappling videos have the same feel as danthewolfman videos- the people in them are not experts and they have a lot of gaps in their knowledge. Plus the techniques they show are low percentage.
     
    #99
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2017
  20. shinkyoku Purple Belt

    shinkyoku
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    WKF rules does not allow hip (or above) throw. They are judged as "unsafe". Other rules (such as Enshin sabaki rules) allows them just fine. As for doing hip throws and remaining upright -there are examples, but the fighters in rulesets allowing it are all well trained, and then we get back to the point abernethy made about how you have to fully commit to throw a skilled guy who knows throws and expects them. And if the rules penalize falling down after doing a throw, or rewards staying on your feet afterward.



    The freestyle rules does not penalize falling down when doing a throw. Enshin rewards staying on your feet and "finish off" the opponent with a strike.

    Edit. I should point out that this is japanese freestyle karate -which is basically knockdown (kyokushin, enshin, ashihara etc etc karate) with a lot of throws and takedown. It has no connection with the bad joke known as american freestyle karate.
     
    #100
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2017
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