Jones vs Fedor opposition

[MartinGibson86]

What exactly was your Couture point?

That he started at 34.... that's great... He fought for 14 years... he was starting to decline after his 10th year of fighting. Fedor started fighting in 2000.... he started declining around his 10th year of fighting as well.

So what exactly was your point?

That 33 isn't old. Randy started fading at 44 huh? Yet stayed 8n the UFC and fought the best...even winning the title. Fedor lost a few in a row and hasn't been relevant since. Mythical to scrub practically overnight in his early 30s in the U.S.

And yea , 44=/=33

 

[Katsumi Yamada]

I will not be able to consider Jones as a Goat contender on the level of Fedor until he moves up for heavyweight.

He was a shredded 238 lbs for his last grappling match. Fedor was a fat 230lbs for his whole career. What gives Jon?

 

[MartinGibson86]

Why are you doing it by 23 fights?

Why not when they were both at the same age?

At 29, Fedor was 26-1. His opponents had a record of : 333 wins and 125 losses for a 72.7% winning percentage.

At 29, Jones is 23-1. His opponents have a record of : 249 wins and 66 losses for a 79% winning percentage.


Fedor fought HWs. Jones ducks HWs.


Funny part is... even a 40 year past prime Fedor is still fighting HWs.... and is more active than a 29 year old Jones.

Man, now you're giving him credit for fighting in his own weight class. He's fought Arona, Babalu. and Lindland too.

Bones has a clear cut win over a guy who would easily be a top5 HW. When has he ever struggled making 205?

 

[Rittsy]

Love me some Bones, but until he stops hurting me he's out of GOAT discussion.

 

[MartinGibson86]

I will not be able to consider Jones as a Goat contender on the level of Fedor until he moves up for heavyweight.

He was a shredded 238 lbs for his last grappling match. Fedor was a fat 230lbs for his whole career. What gives Jon?

He's never had any trouble at all making 205. Fedor fat? Please, he was built like a rock with a little excess pudge on him because he's from an arctic tundra.

Bones isn't even shredded at 205.

 

[campbecc]

Prime Fedor fought at HW, Jones didn't cut weight because he was scared to fight HWs.

He should have been a LHW but he was the best HW for over 7 years because he didn't duck anyone.

 

[fatlipjesus]

That 33 isn't old. Randy started fading at 44 huh? Yet stayed 8n the UFC and fought the best...even winning the title. Fedor lost a few in a row and hasn't been relevant since. Mythical to scrub practically overnight in his early 30s in the U.S.

And yea , 44=/=33

33 is actually old. You are listing one outlier and trying to pretend like its the norm.

The vast majority of top MMA fighters started declining in their early 30s and most often around the 10 year mark of their career.

These include:
Fedor
Bj Penn
Matt Hughes
Wanderlei Silva
Shogun
Noguiera
Vovchanchyn
Sylvia
Barnett
Rampage
Crocop
Mir

I could go on and on and on

But thats okay, cause you whispered Randy Couture's name and apparently that is supposed to mean that nobody can decline until they're 50.

 

[Katsumi Yamada]

He's never had any trouble at all making 205. Fedor fat? Please, he was built like a rock with a little excess pudge on him because he's from an arctic tundra.

Bones isn't even shredded at 205.

I'll take back what I said, he wasn't shredded in that grappling match, he is shredded at 205 though

He should be a heavyweight though, if he wants to be the best absolute. He is already the best at 205lbs.

 

[SMEGMA]

This is the type of thread that Fedor fanatics hate - the cold, hard, indisputable facts about why anyone with a shred of intelligence knows Fedor isn't even in consideration for GOAT. Just look at the triggered novel of tears already posted by the Fedor lovers trying to convince themselves otherwise.

 

[fatlipjesus]

Man, now you're giving him credit for fighting in his own weight class. He's fought Arona, Babalu. and Lindland too.

Bones has a clear cut win over a guy who would easily be a top5 HW. When has he ever struggled making 205?

His own weight class?

Fedor is smaller than Jones and fights at HW.

I have no issue with Jones fighting at LHW if he can make it. But he's still not challenging himself against HWs, something which Fedor did most of his career. Jones hasn't beaten a larger opponent once in his entire career. He's never even tried.

 

[TrueFightFan]

Jones doesn't have knockout power and that is why he cuts weight to duck guys who hit hard. Cutting weight automatically takes him out of the top spot and for those of you guys who like to put *asterisks* by Fedor's wins, try this one on for size: Jones was beaten (*asterisk*) by Vitor Belfort when Belfort sunk in the armbar. Vitor felt the "pop" in Jones' arm and released the hold. By Jones' own words, he wasn't going to tap and was just going to let Vitor break the arm until he felt him let go, he pulled free and continued on to win the fight. Vitor's honor and sportsmanship cost him the fight. I bet if the fight happened now after knowing what a bad guy Jones is, Vitor goes ahead and breaks the arm. People will say Vitor was juiced but I think we all know now that Jones was probably juiced as well.

 

[fatlipjesus]

This is the type of thread that Fedor fanatics hate - the cold, hard, indisputable facts about why anyone with a shred of intelligence knows Fedor isn't even in consideration for GOAT. Just look at the triggered novel of tears already posted by the Fedor lovers trying to convince themselves otherwise.

Unfortunately most of the world still disagrees with you

Somebody will listen though. Just keep trying.

 

[MartinGibson86]

This is the type of thread that Fedor fanatics hate - the cold, hard, indisputable facts about why anyone with a shred of intelligence knows Fedor isn't even in consideration for GOAT. Just look at the triggered novel of tears already posted by the Fedor lovers trying to convince themselves otherwise.

In Fedor's defense, he is definitely in GOAT discussion for HW (though using 'GOAT' in a 24 year old sport is asinine in the first place). Maybe, MAYBE still has the best overall resume, but that will definitely change in the near future, especially if JDS gets the belt back. Shouldn't have dodged the best league in the world. That is absolutely an undeniable stain on his legacy. Mirko, Nog, Hunt, Reem, and Barnett all came over when Pride folded.

Fedor's fans are the scourge of these forums.

 

[MartinGibson86]

I'll take back what I said, he wasn't shredded in that grappling match, he is shredded at 205 though

He should be a heavyweight though, if he wants to be the best absolute. He is already the best at 205lbs.

Bones is clearly thin er than Fedor. Not sure what that pic proves. "Weight" classes.

He makes 205 with ease. What's Fedor's lowest fight weight?

 

[milenss]

So was Vitor when he fought jones.

No. He wasn't.
Hendo was the strikeforce light heavyweight champion by the time he fought Fedor.
Vitor was no champion. He wasn't even fighting at LHW by that time.
He was a bum at MW who got skyrocketed to a ts at LHW.

 

[Taric]

Let me help this thread out. I'm going to list both fighters 10 most impressive victories in order of best to worst (as subjective as that may be).

__ Fedor____________________Jones

1. Nogueira 1________________Shogun
2. Nogueira 3________________Machida
3. Cro Cop__________________Cormier
4. Arlovski___________________Rashad
5. Sylvia____________________Rampage
6. Herring___________________Gus
7. Coleman 1________________Glover
8. Hunt_____________________Sonnen
9. Randleman________________Vitor
10. Babalu___________________Bader

Everybody on both sides of the list were either UFC/PRIDE champions, or fought in a UFC/PRIDE championship fight, sometime in their career.

After the top 10, both fighters start getting into the Bonnar's and the Fujita's of the world.

 

[Johnsonville]

I will correct your post. Go through the actually weights and you will find out that Fedor was heavier in more than half of his fights. That "small hw" myth has been debunked already on sherdog.

Fedor was not tested. Pride encouraged steroid usage and fixed fights. Every Pride victory should have an asterisk next to it for these reasons.

Undefedated for 10 years fighting low level HWs with some decent comp sprinkled in there.

Fedor was routinely tested for competing in sambo throughout his career and never failed a test.

~DaViD~

 

[thobra]

What you said in the first paragraph literally has nothing to do with Fedor fighting guys that have 0 wins when he has 17 wins or fighting a guy with 1 professional fight when Fedor has 28 pro fights...that is the reason he is not the GOAT, his resume is horribly overrated. So jones is cutting weight fighting Daniel Cormier, the guy who beat Bigfoot Silvia after Bigfoot beat the shit out of fedor while Fedor is fighting guys with 0 fucking wins?!?!?

You don't get very far by using Wikipedia for win/loss records, Buddy.... If you had watched MMA at the time, you would have understood how big of a deal his wins were... And staying Undefeated at HW for so long is kind of a big deal, you know. Very different than any other weightclass.

You Are obviously too young to understand this, and when Jones starts losing, another kid will come and try to discredit him, saying he only beat DC that was any good.

Here are some of Fedors wins. If you also add some of the guys he beat kickboxing/grappling creds at the time, but not ranked top 10 In MMA. you would be even more impressed.

Fedor's Record vs Ranked Opponents:


WIN - Brett Rogers - Nov / 7 / 2009 -- Strikeforce / M-1 Global - Fedor vs. Rogers
7 hw - 2009 - Nov 1 - Fight Matrix-Published
6 hw - 2009 - Oct 31 - Sherdog
8 hw - 2009 - Oct 27 - MMA Weekly
6 hw - 2009 - Oct 13 (16) - Independent World MMA Rankings

WIN - Andrei Arlovski - Jan / 24 / 2009 -- Affliction - Day of Reckoning
19' P4P - 2008 - Dec 31 - YAHOO
3 hw - 2009 - JAN (4?) - MMA Fighting
2 hw - 2009 - Jan 11 - Bloody Elbow-Meta
2 hw - 2009 - Jan 7 - Sherdog
2 hw - 2009 - Jan 6 - Sports Illustrated/Josh Gross

WIN - Tim Sylvia - Jul / 19 / 2008 -- Affliction - Banned
4 hw - 2008 - Jul 9 - Sherdog
5 hw - 2008 - Jul 8 - MMA Weekly
5 hw - 2008 - Jun 30 - MMA Fighting
5 hw - 2008 - Jun 24 - Bloody Elbow-Meta

WIN - Matt Lindland - Apr / 14 / 2007 -- Bodog Fight - Clash of the Nations
8 P4P - 2007 - Mar 30 - MMA on Tap
1 mw - 2007 - Apr 10 - MMA Weekly
3 mw - 2007 - Mar 7 - MMA News
2 mw - 2007 - JAN (17) - Bloody Knux
1 mw - 2006 - Nov 30 - MMA Fighting

WIN - Mark Hunt - Dec / 31 / 2006 -- Pride FC - Shockwave 2006
9 hw - 2006 - Dec 19 - MMA Weekly
7 hw - 2006 - Nov 30 - MMA Fighting
9 hw - 2006 - Nov 29 - MMA News
5 hw - 2006 - NOV - Associated Fight Press-Fightsport

WIN - Mirko Filipovic - Aug / 28 / 2005 -- Pride FC - Final Conflict 2005
2 hw - 2005 - Aug 12 - Fighters & Broadcasters Poll
3 hw - 2005 - JUN - Full Contact Fighter
3 hw - 2005 - May (12) - Bloody Knux
3 hw - 2005 - May 4 - ADCC MMA Top Ten

WIN - Tsuyoshi Kosaka - Apr / 3 / 2005 -- Pride - Bushido 6
17' hw - 2005 - Mar 8 - MMA Fighting
15 hw - 2005 - Apr 1 - Fight Matrix-Generated*^^^

WIN - Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira - Dec / 31 / 2004 -- Pride - Shockwave 2004
2 hw - 2004 - Dec 26 - The MMA Collective-MMARanks
1 hw - 2004 - Dec 20 - ADCC MMA Top Ten
2 hw - 2004 - NOV - Fighters & Broadcasters Poll
2 hw - 2004 - Nov 14 - MMA Fighting

WIN - Naoya Ogawa - Aug / 15 / 2004 -- Pride FC - Final Conflict 2004
15 hw - 2004 - Jul 5 - MMA Fighting

WIN - Kevin Randleman - Jun / 20 / 2004 -- Pride FC - Critical Countdown 2004
10 lhw - 2004 - May 20 - ADCC MMA Top Ten
8 lhw - 2004 - MAY - Fighters & Broadcasters Poll
9 lhw - 2004 - Apr 12 - Stephen Quadros

WIN - Mark Coleman - Apr / 25 / 2004 -- Pride FC - Total Elimination 2004
8 hw - 2004 - APR^ - Max Fighting/Josh Gross
10 hw - 2004 - Apr 1 - Fight Matrix-Generated*^^^

WIN - Kazuyuki Fujita - Jun / 8 / 2003 -- Pride 26 - Bad to the Bone
10 hw - 2003 - May 4 - MMA News

WIN - Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira - Mar / 16 / 2003 -- Pride 25 - Body Blow
1 hw - 2003 - Mar 4 - MMA News
1 hw - 2003 - MAR^ - Associated Fight Press-Fightsport
1 hw - 2003 - Feb 15 - MMA Media Top 10
1 hw - 2003 - Jan 31 - Fighters & Broadcasters Poll

WIN - Heath Herring - Nov / 24 / 2002 -- Pride 23 - Championship Chaos 2
4 hw - 2002 - Nov 1 - MMA Media Top 10
4 hw - 2002 - OCT - Associated Fight Press-Fightsport
3 hw - 2002 - Sep 4 - Stephen Quadros
7 hw - 2002 - FEB - MMA Weekly-Fan Vote

WIN - Semmy Schilt - Jun / 23 / 2002 -- Pride 21 - Demolition
10 hw - 2002 - Jun 11 - MMA Media Top 10
9 hw - 2002 - Jan 12 - Stephen Quadros

WIN - Renato Sobral - Aug / 11 / 2001 -- Rings - 10th Anniversary
8 hw - 2001 - Jul 1 - Fight Matrix-Generated*^^^
9 hw - 2001 - JAN - MMA Writers Top Ten (^2-0 vs TK & Tamura)

 

[MartinGibson86]

You don't get very far by using Wikipedia for win/loss records, Buddy.... If you had watched MMA at the time, you would have understood how big of a deal his wins were... And staying Undefeated at HW for so long is kind of a big deal, you know. Very different than any other weightclass.

You Are obviously too young to understand this, and when Jones starts losing, another kid will come and try to discredit him, saying he only beat DC that was any good.

Here are some of Fedors wins. If you also add some of the guys he beat kickboxing/grappling creds at the time, but not ranked top 10 In MMA. you would be even more impressed.

Fedor's Record vs Ranked Opponents:


WIN - Brett Rogers - Nov / 7 / 2009 -- Strikeforce / M-1 Global - Fedor vs. Rogers
7 hw - 2009 - Nov 1 - Fight Matrix-Published
6 hw - 2009 - Oct 31 - Sherdog
8 hw - 2009 - Oct 27 - MMA Weekly
6 hw - 2009 - Oct 13 (16) - Independent World MMA Rankings

WIN - Andrei Arlovski - Jan / 24 / 2009 -- Affliction - Day of Reckoning
19' P4P - 2008 - Dec 31 - YAHOO
3 hw - 2009 - JAN (4?) - MMA Fighting
2 hw - 2009 - Jan 11 - Bloody Elbow-Meta
2 hw - 2009 - Jan 7 - Sherdog
2 hw - 2009 - Jan 6 - Sports Illustrated/Josh Gross

WIN - Tim Sylvia - Jul / 19 / 2008 -- Affliction - Banned
4 hw - 2008 - Jul 9 - Sherdog
5 hw - 2008 - Jul 8 - MMA Weekly
5 hw - 2008 - Jun 30 - MMA Fighting
5 hw - 2008 - Jun 24 - Bloody Elbow-Meta

WIN - Matt Lindland - Apr / 14 / 2007 -- Bodog Fight - Clash of the Nations
8 P4P - 2007 - Mar 30 - MMA on Tap
1 mw - 2007 - Apr 10 - MMA Weekly
3 mw - 2007 - Mar 7 - MMA News
2 mw - 2007 - JAN (17) - Bloody Knux
1 mw - 2006 - Nov 30 - MMA Fighting

WIN - Mark Hunt - Dec / 31 / 2006 -- Pride FC - Shockwave 2006
9 hw - 2006 - Dec 19 - MMA Weekly
7 hw - 2006 - Nov 30 - MMA Fighting
9 hw - 2006 - Nov 29 - MMA News
5 hw - 2006 - NOV - Associated Fight Press-Fightsport

WIN - Mirko Filipovic - Aug / 28 / 2005 -- Pride FC - Final Conflict 2005
2 hw - 2005 - Aug 12 - Fighters & Broadcasters Poll
3 hw - 2005 - JUN - Full Contact Fighter
3 hw - 2005 - May (12) - Bloody Knux
3 hw - 2005 - May 4 - ADCC MMA Top Ten

WIN - Tsuyoshi Kosaka - Apr / 3 / 2005 -- Pride - Bushido 6
17' hw - 2005 - Mar 8 - MMA Fighting
15 hw - 2005 - Apr 1 - Fight Matrix-Generated*^^^

WIN - Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira - Dec / 31 / 2004 -- Pride - Shockwave 2004
2 hw - 2004 - Dec 26 - The MMA Collective-MMARanks
1 hw - 2004 - Dec 20 - ADCC MMA Top Ten
2 hw - 2004 - NOV - Fighters & Broadcasters Poll
2 hw - 2004 - Nov 14 - MMA Fighting

WIN - Naoya Ogawa - Aug / 15 / 2004 -- Pride FC - Final Conflict 2004
15 hw - 2004 - Jul 5 - MMA Fighting

WIN - Kevin Randleman - Jun / 20 / 2004 -- Pride FC - Critical Countdown 2004
10 lhw - 2004 - May 20 - ADCC MMA Top Ten
8 lhw - 2004 - MAY - Fighters & Broadcasters Poll
9 lhw - 2004 - Apr 12 - Stephen Quadros

WIN - Mark Coleman - Apr / 25 / 2004 -- Pride FC - Total Elimination 2004
8 hw - 2004 - APR^ - Max Fighting/Josh Gross
10 hw - 2004 - Apr 1 - Fight Matrix-Generated*^^^

WIN - Kazuyuki Fujita - Jun / 8 / 2003 -- Pride 26 - Bad to the Bone
10 hw - 2003 - May 4 - MMA News

WIN - Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira - Mar / 16 / 2003 -- Pride 25 - Body Blow
1 hw - 2003 - Mar 4 - MMA News
1 hw - 2003 - MAR^ - Associated Fight Press-Fightsport
1 hw - 2003 - Feb 15 - MMA Media Top 10
1 hw - 2003 - Jan 31 - Fighters & Broadcasters Poll

WIN - Heath Herring - Nov / 24 / 2002 -- Pride 23 - Championship Chaos 2
4 hw - 2002 - Nov 1 - MMA Media Top 10
4 hw - 2002 - OCT - Associated Fight Press-Fightsport
3 hw - 2002 - Sep 4 - Stephen Quadros
7 hw - 2002 - FEB - MMA Weekly-Fan Vote

WIN - Semmy Schilt - Jun / 23 / 2002 -- Pride 21 - Demolition
10 hw - 2002 - Jun 11 - MMA Media Top 10
9 hw - 2002 - Jan 12 - Stephen Quadros

WIN - Renato Sobral - Aug / 11 / 2001 -- Rings - 10th Anniversary
8 hw - 2001 - Jul 1 - Fight Matrix-Generated*^^^
9 hw - 2001 - JAN - MMA Writers Top Ten (^2-0 vs TK & Tamura)

Proving how shallow the talent pool was. Wow, giving him credit for Lindland and trying to make the case for Ogawa and Babalu as "ranked" HWs.

I watched Gerard Gordeau-Teila Tuli live.

Bones is the best fighter ever.

 

[Taric]

Proving how shallow the talent pool was. Wow, giving him credit for Lindland and trying to make the case for Ogawa and Babalu as "ranked" HWs.

8 watched Gerard Gordeau-Teila Tuli live.

B9nes ithe best fighter ever.

If Bones gets credit for beating up MWs, why can't Fedor?
Fedor's the smaller dude between the two.