"Jiu-jitsu is gonna drown", says Rickson Gracie

[devante]

This is the truth. When you face people that know what they are doing, then your perspective of other people change. You see that small skinny guy not as a wimpy looking guy but that guy in class who is flexible as hell and has some good speed and timing. You see that middle aged guy who looks in decent shape, walking around with his family, not as some middle aged dude with a family but that older purple belt who just wrecks you with his old man strength and skill to match.

It's called the Dunning Kruger effect. Experts usually underestimate their skills while non experts oversestimate their skills. It happens with fighting all the time. New dudes come into class thinking they are going to do this and that, then reality sinks in.

lol...literally describes my pov, and i was already cautious or respectful of what people could do before training; training just gives me a rational line of thought based on prior experience that brings me to that conclusion.

after sparring (striking grappling or mma) w/some goofy looking college guy, or some kinda out of shape dad type and really getting pushed you no longer make assumptions demeaning what someone could do to you; cus your experience has show you the exact opposite.

i actually had someone tell me i am super cautious around really polite or non confrontational guys; cus i sparred you fairly regularly and you were putting it on me (in spots), so now i'm thinking they are calm and polite for a reason...not just cus they are push overs.

 

[SummerStriker]

This is the truth. When you face people that know what they are doing, then your perspective of other people change. You see that small skinny guy not as a wimpy looking guy but that guy in class who is flexible as hell and has some good speed and timing. You see that middle aged guy who looks in decent shape, walking around with his family, not as some middle aged dude with a family but that older purple belt who just wrecks you with his old man strength and skill to match.

It's called the Dunning Kruger effect. Experts usually underestimate their skills while non experts oversestimate their skills. It happens with fighting all the time. New dudes come into class thinking they are going to do this and that, then reality sinks in.

That's the best though.

That gym I talked about before, the Kenpo place that competed in kick boxing. There was this old, grey bearded dude who always showed up in nurses scrubs to spar. He was easily mid fifties and carrying a minimum of 40 pounds extra weight, but he had conditioned shins and arms from years of kick boxing and just slapped the shit out of amateur fighters.

I know it bothered people but they couldn't do anything about it.

 

[SummerStriker]

i actually had someone tell me i am super cautious around really polite or non confrontational guys; cus i sparred you fairly regularly and you were putting it on me (in spots), so now i'm thinking they are calm and polite for a reason...not just cus they are push overs.

I have a Micky Mouse shirt I got on vacation and wore it to sparring one day. This fighter came up to me and said, "your shirt is scaring me. Way more frightening than an affliction shirt."

 

[devante]

That's the best though.

That gym I talked about before, the Kenpo place that competed in kick boxing. There was this old, grey bearded dude who always showed up in nurses scrubs to spar. He was easily mid fifties and carrying a minimum of 40 pounds extra weight, but he had conditioned shins and arms from years of kick boxing and just slapped the shit out of amateur fighters.

I know it bothered people but they couldn't do anything about it.

lol i have seen that...it never fails to make me laugh seeing all the ripped up bad asses getting touched up by some dude who is the epitome of dad bod.

it must be what all those ufc fighters feel like after getting beaten up by dan kelly

 

[randomg1t]

This is the truth. When you face people that know what they are doing, then your perspective of other people change. You see that small skinny guy not as a wimpy looking guy but that guy in class who is flexible as hell and has some good speed and timing. You see that middle aged guy who looks in decent shape, walking around with his family, not as some middle aged dude with a family but that older purple belt who just wrecks you with his old man strength and skill to match.

It's called the Dunning Kruger effect. Experts usually underestimate their skills while non experts oversestimate their skills. It happens with fighting all the time. New dudes come into class thinking they are going to do this and that, then reality sinks in.

i am wary of any man with fucked up ears.

 

[CFGroup]

i am wary of any man with fucked up ears.

LOL, 1 of the many things on my out in public threat assessment radar.

Just tells me to hit them in the face before they 're ready for it if the shit gets real, LOL!

 

[SummerStriker]

LOL, 1 of the many things on my out in public threat assessment radar.

Just tells me to hit them in the face before they 're ready for it if the shit gets real, LOL!

Another good sign are guys that have their feet pointed forward rather than out, or who like to stand with one foot back. Most chumps will be on their heels, even when they're talking shit and non-athletes usually have their toes out 90 degrees. People that train will kind of fix their feet for fighting when they are day dreaming about beating someone.

 

[Coconutwater]

murillo bustamante came out from brazil with pretty much no fighting experience but vale tudo trining, fabio gurgel took n fucking mark keer and lasted to a decision do you actually believe paulo would be alive after 3 minutes of having prime keer in a ring?

stop living in lalaland...

Guys from the past.. mario sperry murilo paulo filho the whole btt team, are you for real you get keenan cornelius in a cage with murilo from the past and you think keenan was going to destroy murilo?

my guts tell me the closes you have gotten to a fight, was ring side.

grappling works, if you train to be a fighter with grappling base, you may turn into a good fighter, but not every grappler is a fighter, you think what royce did couldve be achived by just any random black belt from today who has never trained to fight? yeah right.

I completely agree. There were plenty of black belts back in the day, but Royce actually prepared for the trauma of being kicked and punched. He got clocked by a heavier, Shamrock and stayed in the game. He fought Keith Hackney, who could strike and sprawl. The point is, Royce could handle the stress of a real fight. A lot of old-school BJJ'ers, specifically BTT or any Gracies, had a mental toughness brought about by a culture of bravado. Modern jiu-jitsu guys are great grapplers, and many would do okay in a self-defense scenario, but not against a decent black belt from back in the day who literally prepared to scrap.

 

[mattemate]

The main reason is that you end up in bottom closed guard after the guard jump which sucks in mma.

Kron would beg to differ.

 

[mattemate]

Another good sign are guys that have their feet pointed forward rather than out, or who like to stand with one foot back. Most chumps will be on their heels, even when they're talking shit and non-athletes usually have their toes out 90 degrees. People that train will kind of fix their feet for fighting when they are day dreaming about beating someone.

Dude that's hilarious. A while back my girl's ex was sending her some pretty fucked up texts so I went out and found him to shut it down. Dude was standing square to me with his toes pointed straight out to the sides almost 180 degrees from each other. He looked like fucking Ronald McDonald.

I mean he wanted nothing at all to do with me, and I shut it the fuck down, but honestly what was I gonna do? It literally would have been like a regular Joe grown man beating up a kid.

I told her I had half a mind to dump her fine ass for ever letting such a gimp put his dick in her.

 

[mattemate]

rickson's game was his jiu jitsu. he took guys down and armbarred them. he occasionally also hit them in the face after mounting them, or getting side control on them, neither of which he'd ever get on paulo. i'm not even sure he could get paulo down, to be honest. and on the ground, as much as everyone adores rickson, i just refuse to believe he was some mythical creature. his jiu jitsu was good, but today's champions are undoubtedly better.

Dude watch Ricksons fight with Zulu. Zulu was a freak athlete, huge, with skills. You think a Miyao is gonna last with that animal? Did you see at adcc when he took a little hit to the face from Justin Rader how he reacted? Also, Paulo Filho said Rickson had the sickest jits he'd ever seen and could potentially beat anyone in MMA. This was when Paulo was the number two MW in the world and had just taken down and subbed Melvin Manhoef. Rickson was 50 then. But a Miyao is gonna beat a PRIME Rickson?

i can't even do the berimbolo.

Well maybe you should learn so you know a bit more what you're talking about.

Henry Akins said the ibjjf world champions would come to rickson gym and they would get demolished.

Of course, henry never mentioned any names.

I met a Rickson blue belt once back in the day who claimed their white belts would regularly tap browns and blacks from other academies. Okie dokie. Which white belts? Where are they? Which black belts?

I invited him to come train (I was at Relson academy at the time), bit he declined.

Most of his opponents had zero skill in anything fighting related.

Yeah there was the occasional Bud Smith mixed in. But watch his fight with Funaki, or BJJ with Rigan. Then see what Rigan did at a judo tournament.

funaki was not cm punk, levicki was a huge dude, And you do realize he beat Takada 2 times? The same Takada that beat Coleman and fought Mirko to a draw.

Good points BUT takada-coleman was a total work.

How did bob sapp beat Ernesto 2 times?

Hoost stopped leg kicking and started trading punches. Funny because Hoost always owned Mirko, but Mirko WRECKED Sapp.

 

[SummerStriker]

Dude that's hilarious. A while back my girl's ex was sending her some pretty fucked up texts so I went out and found him to shut it down. Dude was standing square to me with his toes pointed straight out to the sides almost 180 degrees from each other. He looked like fucking Ronald McDonald.

I mean he wanted nothing at all to do with me, and I shut it the fuck down, but honestly what was I gonna do? It literally would have been like a regular Joe grown man beating up a kid.

I told her I had half a mind to dump her fine ass for ever letting such a gimp put his dick in her.

Classic

 

[freaky]

It's true man. Just look at any mainstream martial art sport. Judo has gone to shit. BJJ is following Judo's footstep imo. TKD, Karate, etc. Point fighting etc.

Judo used to have strikes, but Kano removed it for safety. Newaza was boring so he changed the rules for more stand up and throws. Now you have today's Judo of 90% throws and 9% pins with 1% or rarely any submission attempts.

It's already down the shit hole with sport jiu jitsu.

 

[Waldorf]

That's why I think it should be against the rules. If it had practical value in fighting or self defense, you could make an argument for why it should be permitted. It seems like it is both dangerous and stupid, so why bother with it.

On the underground wasn't (isn't?)there a long running thread with Chris Brennan stories, and at least a few isn't them feature him pulling guard in some sort of street fight and then armbarring the poor sap. A guy I trained with jumped guard drunk and triangle a guy (on a sidewalk) and managed to put the guy out without being slammed. He didn't even hook the leg. As high percentage as being on top, no. But with no value, also no.

 

[randomg1t]

Dude watch Ricksons fight with Zulu. Zulu was a freak athlete, huge, with skills. You think a Miyao is gonna last with that animal? Did you see at adcc when he took a little hit to the face from Justin Rader how he reacted? Also, Paulo Filho said Rickson had the sickest jits he'd ever seen and could potentially beat anyone in MMA. This was when Paulo was the number two MW in the world and had just taken down and subbed Melvin Manhoef. Rickson was 50 then. But a Miyao is gonna beat a PRIME Rickson?

i don't know about his skills, but zulu was indeed a bad motherfucker, even by today's standards. and i'm just not the type to believe the mythical abilities of rickson, when the available footage of him is so limited. he looks slick in his fights, but he's facing guys who have no clue what they're doing. and he's equally clueless standing, he wins his fights purely with jiu jitsu. did you really expect filho to train with rickson and say he'd kick his ass if they fought? of course he gave him insane props, every gracie fan does that. but i don't need second hand stuff about today's top guys, i can see them in action.

the point i was trying to make is that the guys who used nothing but jiu jitsu back in the day to win fights would lose to today's top competitors in jiu jitsu, simply because the sport has evolved and today's top competitors are professional athletes. it's like comparing usain bolt with whoever was #1 in the 90s... the only difference is you can actually measure their performance.

now everyone claims the champions now aren't real fighters, and what i'm saying is that it doesn't matter. the goal remains the same, and it's to establish dominant positions and submit your opponent. and rafa mendes, while being a much better athlete, is also a whole lot better at doing that than royce gracie ever was. so if he were to face royce in a fight, i'd say he'd choke the shit out of him. not necessarily the guys royce beat, though.

but i'm not going to argue this any further. i've stated my opinions several times in this thread already and tried to explain them. besides, i understand what you guys are saying and i partially agree with it. we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Well maybe you should learn so you know a bit more what you're talking about.

i can do it, i just can't do it very well and it doesn't fit my style. but i've rolled with people who can do it and it's a pain in the ass to deal with. i'd imagine it being annoying as shit when paulo miyao does it to you, over and over... and over again.

me doing it is besides the point anyway. the point is, while people frown on the technique and claim it isn't realistic (whatever the fuck that means), this little asian-brazillian kid is taking everyone's back with it in seconds. and not vs untrained idiots, but badass blackbelt competitors who know it's coming and can't do a damn thing about it. i'd say it's pretty effective.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

i don't know about his skills, but zulu was indeed a bad motherfucker, even by today's standards. and i'm just not the type to believe the mythical abilities of rickson, when the available footage of him is so limited. he looks slick in his fights, but he's facing guys who have no clue what they're doing. and he's equally clueless standing, he wins his fights purely with jiu jitsu. did you really expect filho to train with rickson and say he'd kick his ass if they fought? of course he gave him insane props, every gracie fan does that. but i don't need second hand stuff about today's top guys, i can see them in action.

the point i was trying to make is that the guys who used nothing but jiu jitsu back in the day to win fights would lose to today's top competitors in jiu jitsu, simply because the sport has evolved and today's top competitors are professional athletes. it's like comparing usain bolt with whoever was #1 in the 90s... the only difference is you can actually measure their performance.

now everyone claims the champions now aren't real fighters, and what i'm saying is that it doesn't matter. the goal remains the same, and it's to establish dominant positions and submit your opponent. and rafa mendes, while being a much better athlete, is also a whole lot better at doing that than royce gracie ever was. so if he were to face royce in a fight, i'd say he'd choke the shit out of him. not necessarily the guys royce beat, though.

but i'm not going to argue this any further. i've stated my opinions several times in this thread already and tried to explain them. besides, i understand what you guys are saying and i partially agree with it. we'll just have to agree to disagree.


i can do it, i just can't do it very well and it doesn't fit my style. but i've rolled with people who can do it and it's a pain in the ass to deal with. i'd imagine it being annoying as shit when paulo miyao does it to you, over and over... and over again.

me doing it is besides the point anyway. the point is, while people frown on the technique and claim it isn't realistic (whatever the fuck that means), this little asian-brazillian kid is taking everyone's back with it in seconds. and not vs untrained idiots, but badass blackbelt competitors who know it's coming and can't do a damn thing about it. i'd say it's pretty effective.

in a sport, with gis, with no stomps kicks or strikes, which allows the fighter to sit on his ass and try to take someones back. It utterly fucking ridiculous to say miyao will translate his skills to mma just because he keeps on berimboling people in bjj.

 

[rmongler]

Lets just try to keep it real guys; Rickson was big, talented, and athletic. We are talking guys two, three, four weightclasses higher even as competition. There is no way teenbod time machine Miyao, either one, is winning that fight.

 

[CFGroup]

i don't know about his skills, but zulu was indeed a bad motherfucker, even by today's standards. and i'm just not the type to believe the mythical abilities of rickson, when the available footage of him is so limited. he looks slick in his fights, but he's facing guys who have no clue what they're doing. and he's equally clueless standing, he wins his fights purely with jiu jitsu. did you really expect filho to train with rickson and say he'd kick his ass if they fought? of course he gave him insane props, every gracie fan does that. but i don't need second hand stuff about today's top guys, i can see them in action.

the point i was trying to make is that the guys who used nothing but jiu jitsu back in the day to win fights would lose to today's top competitors in jiu jitsu, simply because the sport has evolved and today's top competitors are professional athletes. it's like comparing usain bolt with whoever was #1 in the 90s... the only difference is you can actually measure their performance.

now everyone claims the champions now aren't real fighters, and what i'm saying is that it doesn't matter. the goal remains the same, and it's to establish dominant positions and submit your opponent. and rafa mendes, while being a much better athlete, is also a whole lot better at doing that than royce gracie ever was. so if he were to face royce in a fight, i'd say he'd choke the shit out of him. not necessarily the guys royce beat, though.

but i'm not going to argue this any further. i've stated my opinions several times in this thread already and tried to explain them. besides, i understand what you guys are saying and i partially agree with it. we'll just have to agree to disagree.


i can do it, i just can't do it very well and it doesn't fit my style. but i've rolled with people who can do it and it's a pain in the ass to deal with. i'd imagine it being annoying as shit when paulo miyao does it to you, over and over... and over again.

me doing it is besides the point anyway. the point is, while people frown on the technique and claim it isn't realistic (whatever the fuck that means), this little asian-brazillian kid is taking everyone's back with it in seconds. and not vs untrained idiots, but badass blackbelt competitors who know it's coming and can't do a damn thing about it. i'd say it's pretty effective.

Definitely a alternate point of tactical attack by using the legs to control the opponents hips and center mass from what I can see. Just part of the evolution that doesn't have as many counters mapped out for it yet.

Kinda cool...

 

[Solidus Snake]

While I think Bjj sport still makes you tough as I already said, cage tough it's just another matter.. but I'd say the same for any other grappling art.. I know people who would probably react fine if they had to deal with a street kind, out of the blue situation..

But walking in a cage with another even relatively prepared motherfucker ready to punch and kick you, knowing beforehand that he'll try to rip your head off if he'll get the chance, in front of your friends and a lot of other people? I think it takes some special kind of guts that people like for example Royce had, while other Bjj artists even better than him might lack.. that old quote that said something along the lines that the black of the belt starts to fade away once you start to get punched was so on point for a reason, after all..

I also find the "in an MMA match modern Bjj artists would beat the past Valetudo based ones" argument to prove a point a bit silly.. I mean guys from the past wouldn't know newer Bjj intricacies, if you magically teleport one and another on a ring, yeah maybe that could happen even if I personally wouldn't point my money on it, but give them I don't know, even something like two weeks to study and prepare for it to some guys like the old Bjj top team (Filho, Arona etc.).. and I think without the gi they could shut down most if not all the modern guards pretty easily in an MMA scenario..

 

[Thycidides]

I'm pretty sure Ryan Hall beats up Royce Gracie and tears his leg off if they were to fight today, in the past or in the future. People are forgetting how much the leg lock game has evolved and how BJJ athletes who do transition to mma knowdays have better striking than the older generation.

I much prefer training under Ryan Hall's students than Gracie combative people.

I used to train at a Gracie academy and their guys sucked. I found my basic judo newaza was a match for them. Now I go to a 50/50 affiliate for open mat and get my ass kicked by the berimbolo.