Jeet Kune Do

[Corey Kuropas]

People have an obsession with estoteric styles, whether it be JKD, Sanda, Kudo, etc. The prevailing belief is that "These styles are rare, so they must have super-rare techniques that will crush the MT/boxing establishment!"

The reality is simple. Bruce Lee once upon a time had a notebook of his thoughts on martial arts. It was far from complete, as he didn't have the magnificent resources of Youtube or UFC on Demand at his disposal way back then. When he died, the notebook was put in trade paperback and sold worldwide, and people interpreted it as this sort of "ultimate" style when it was nothing of the sort.

Don't believe me? Look at Tony Valente's K-1 fights.

Tony Valente is a fake JKDer. Not legit.

 

[Lionidas]

Tony Valente is a fake JKDer. Not legit.

Agreed. He might be obsessed with JKD but he's a tool nonetheless.

 

[Gorack]

I've trained in two sides of the same coin when it comes to JKD and it's very interesting.

I've trained with the "original" Jun Fan guys from Poteet. While there are some good thoughts, I did not like it too much. Way to focused on Wing Chun and felt kinda static.

Then I've trained with the "concept" guys from Inosanto, Hartsell, Balicki, and Vunak. This was truly awesome stuff. With this, I got to train in concepts of Boxing, Muay Thai, Kali, Wing Chun, BJJ, Shooto, and Vunak's RAT system. With the concept guys, you train to be a complete martial artist.

Too bad there's no legit JKD guys around me anymore.

Where are you at in Illinois?

I train with Dion Riccardo and he's definitely legit. His protege, Anthony Calderone, recently got his full instructorship under Paul Vunak as well. I'm fortunate to get to train with AC on a consistent basis, he's a fantastic martial artist.

We have MMA style classes (muay thai/boxing as well as jiu jitsu/wrestling/sambo) that act as the basis for people to learn how to kick, punch, sprawl, submit whatever. We also have JKD/Kali classes that are more geared towards weapons, multiple attackers, street defense type of stuff.

JKD philosophy such as the five ways of attack are incorporated into the MMA classes. But, the Kali/JKD classes are where we get more of your concepts like defanging the snake, hubud drills, sumbrada and stuff like that.

 

[Gfreak]

Don't mean to threadjack here, but thought it'd be as good a place as any to ask.

Is JKD worth taking the time to really learn for me to go on and fight some day? I think i'm lucky enough to live next to a legit JKD (atleast i'm pretty dang sure he's legit) instructor.

That guy's Joe Soliz, who is a senior full instructor and taught with paul vunak. I'm already taking BJJ and a bit of boxing from my dad. And was just wondering if JKD was really worth learning.

 

[yodaman]

Agreed. He might be obsessed with JKD but he's a tool nonetheless.

Well he did apparently threaten folks on Youtube.

My point is that people are drawn to unique styles, because they're different. JKD is no exception. It's far different from the MT establishment on the surface, so people want to learn it. But different doesn't = better. The top "JKD" guys knew that their techniques couldn't remain static. They bought in BJJers, bought in Shooters, MT guys, etc, to round out their games. Inosanto is a walking encyclopedia of techniques, but the JKD "Jun Fan" establishment considers him a fraud of the highest order. Likewise Ron Balicki. He's a footnote in SHOOTO history (A Yori Nakamura product who lost to Rumina Sato, a guy made of pure awesome) At that point, they resemble most MMA schools, at least from a competition perspective.

My point is, JKD can be good, without a doubt. But the good JKD isn't necessarily going to be dramatically different from what you would learn elsewhere.

 

[Lionidas]

Don't mean to threadjack here, but thought it'd be as good a place as any to ask.

Is JKD worth taking the time to really learn for me to go on and fight some day? I think i'm lucky enough to live next to a legit JKD (atleast i'm pretty dang sure he's legit) instructor.

That guy's Joe Soliz, who is a senior full instructor and taught with paul vunak. I'm already taking BJJ and a bit of boxing from my dad. And was just wondering if JKD was really worth learning.

Anything is worth trying at least once.
Go to a class (first one is probably free) and see how you feel about it.

My advice though, if you really want to fight some day then find a Muay thai/boxing gym instead. I'm sure your dad knows his stuff, but you need a gym to truly hone your skills and test yourself against others on your same level.

 

[Gfreak]

Anything is worth trying at least once.
Go to a class (first one is probably free) and see how you feel about it.

My advice though, if you really want to fight some day then find a Muay thai/boxing gym instead. I'm sure your dad knows his stuff, but you need a gym to truly hone your skills and test yourself against others on your same level.

Yea, i've one to a few classes in the past (they have them right after the BJJ gi classes end, so i've done some then. And it was very basic stuff: Trapping and some limb destructions, basic knife defense/practice, and some leg kicks. along with a bit of sparring in a couple of the classes. But i was just wondering the practicality of it in fighting compared to traditional boxing and MT.
.
(also my dad was a golden gloves champ before he went into the marines.)

p.s. not arguing the fact that i need a boxing gym heh, i know people that take from my BJJ gym (same as the jkd guy) that are pretty proficient in boxing/mt so i can spar some of the guys there

 

[Too Defensive**]

how do you know what "bruce taught"?

Because of the invention of the printed word, created centturies ago in ancient China.

 

[nefti]

Because of the invention of the printed word, created centturies ago in ancient China.

so you, with a few books which were only a small part of bruce lee's ever evoloving theory, know more about what he "taught" than a man who was his prized pupil and the man entrusted with the training of his childen?

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

so you, with a few books which were only a small part of bruce lee's ever evoloving theory, know more about what he "taught" than a man who was his prized pupil and the man entrusted with the training of his childen?

I didn't see anyone of lee's students claiming thathe had all this extra stuff he didnt show in his books

Sure it evolved and you can see it in some of his early vs later students but bare in mind jkd was suposed to be simple and to the point not a mess of this and that therefore its safe to assume pretty much all was there.


In fact, i recall Terry Tom,a student of Ted wong( one of Bruce's students) stating in her Black Belt magazine column that a good way to tell if a jkd school is legit is too look at lee's books as a reference point. If you don't see what is in his books being covered in the school than that's not jkd.

 

[nefti]

bruce lee used what he was exposed to and what he had time to learn. Wait, so you are taking the word of a student of a student's of bruce ( a man who probably never even met yet trained under him) over a man who spent more time than anyone with bruce lee? IS that what you are saying?

 

[nefti]

also iirc, bruce lee only really "Wrote" one book: Chinese Gung Fu, the Philosophical Art of Self Defense

and that was written in 1963 a full 10 years before he died as a young man. That's a decade of exposure to other styles and deeper understand of styles that he did not/could not write about.

The other so called bruce lee "books" are only a collection of certain notes of his. It's like only seeing one side of a multiple sided building and thinking you know what the building looks like.

Don't take my word for it. Youtube "dan inosanto interview" and listen to what bruce lee's right hand man has to say.

 

[Too Defensive**]

also iirc, bruce lee only really "Wrote" one book: Chinese Gung Fu, the Philosophical Art of Self Defense

and that was written in 1963 a full 10 years before he died as a young man. That's a decade of exposure to other styles and deeper understand of styles that he did not/could not write about.

The other so called bruce lee "books" are only a collection of certain notes of his. It's like only seeing one side of a multiple sided building and thinking you know what the building looks like.

Don't take my word for it. Youtube "dan inosanto interview" and listen to what bruce lee's right hand man has to say.

No. I don't want to listen to the opinion of a man who turn JKD into a cluster fuck of styles. He even added Escrima into the pile. Very convinient he also happens to be Filippino. So what if he studied under Bruce. All that means nothing if you are doing a complete 180 of what he taught. If I trained under Bruce for 10 years, and I start opening up schools of Classical Kung Fu, then all that training is in applicable.

Further more, as previously stated by a poster with some common sense, JKD is extremely simple. What you see in the books is what you get.some hidden secrets he didn't write in his books

 

[Corey Kuropas]

No. I don't want to listen to the opinion of a man who turn JKD into a cluster fuck of styles. He even added Escrima into the pile. Very convinient he also happens to be Filippino. So what if he studied under Bruce. All that means nothing if you are doing a complete 180 of what he taught. If I trained under Bruce for 10 years, and I start opening up schools of Classical Kung Fu, then all that training is in applicable.

Further more, as previously stated by a poster with some common sense, JKD is extremely simple. What you see in the books is what you get.some hidden secrets he didn't write in his books

You're wrong. Bruce wanted to the style to continue evolving and that's exactly what Dan did, he made it evolve. All the "original" Jun Fan guys are just playing Bruce Lee.

 

[Too Defensive**]

You're wrong. Bruce wanted to the style to continue evolving and that's exactly what Dan did, he made it evolve. All the "original" Jun Fan guys are just playing Bruce Lee.

but not evolve from the basics and the fundamental through.

 

[yodaman]

In fact, i recall Terry Tom,a student of Ted wong( one of Bruce's students) stating in her Black Belt magazine column that a good way to tell if a jkd school is legit is too look at lee's books as a reference point. If you don't see what is in his books being covered in the school than that's not jkd.

Yes, because Lee's style frozen in time at the time of his death is the be all-end off of his philosophy.

I read Straight Blast. The explanation as to why the technique would be a superior weapon turned out to be a whole lot of horseshit disguised in physics and anatomy classes. The truth of the matter is that the boxer evolved towards power side back because of the limited options available for knocking out an opponent. Furthermore, a straight blast thrown from the strong side is nowhere near as powerful as a cross from there. Then you add in kicks and the targets of such, and you see how the theory around the punch falls apart rather quickly.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

Yes, because Lee's style frozen in time at the time of his death is the be all-end off of his philosophy.

I read Straight Blast. The explanation as to why the technique would be a superior weapon turned out to be a whole lot of horseshit disguised in physics and anatomy classes. The truth of the matter is that the boxer evolved towards power side back because of the limited options available for knocking out an opponent. Furthermore, a straight blast thrown from the strong side is nowhere near as powerful as a cross from there. Then you add in kicks and the targets of such, and you see how the theory around the punch falls apart rather quickly.

I never claimed it was BUT as the gentleman mentioned above i'm sure Lee wouldn't have wanted what he worked on to be completely disregarded as it has been with the current generation of JKD practioners. What was there was simple, basic ,proven and despite what some have claimed didn't require some type of super human genetics to preform.

Actually a strait blast from the strong side forward can produce as much power as a cross ( Remember it depends on the individual so lets not go making gross generalizations as that is never wise.) and i don't see how you talking about kicks and targets hampers the punches effectiveness since you didn't elaborate thus leaving me in the dark as to what you were attempting to get at.

 

[nefti]

I never claimed it was BUT as the gentleman mentioned above i'm sure Lee wouldn't have wanted what he worked on to be completely disregarded as it has been with the current generation of JKD practioners. What was there was simple, basic ,proven and despite what some have claimed didn't require some type of super human genetics to preform.

how do you know what bruce would have wanted or didn't want to be added or disregarded? Do you think that you know more about what bruce lee would have wanted or not wanted more than a person spent more time with him than anyone? Also you seem to have a problem with escrima being added, why? Why does it bother you?

Actually a strait blast from the strong side forward can produce as much power as a cross ( Remember it depends on the individual so lets not go making gross generalizations as that is never wise.) and i don't see how you talking about kicks and targets hampers the punches effectiveness since you didn't elaborate thus leaving me in the dark as to what you were attempting to get at.

The whole "it depends on the individual" is nonsensical bullshit that alot of TMAers have resulted to because of their lack of ability to prove techniques/styles. There are things called biomechanics and biophysics. So to say that "oh it depends on the person" is bullshit. Even bruce lee said to punch from your hip.

Here is a wild idea, why not listen to the man who actually spent and trained with bruce lee more than anyone else in the world? Why not listen to the man that Bruce Lee's family entrusted with the training of Bruce Lee's children?

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

how do you know what bruce would have wanted or didn't want to be added or disregarded? Do you think that you know more about what bruce lee would have wanted or not wanted more than a person spent more time with him than anyone? Also you seem to have a problem with escrima being added, why? Why does it bother you?

First of all genius, if you're going to try to pick an arguement with me don't go confusing me with some one else. I never said i had a problem with Escrima being added in you dolt.:icon_lol:

Logically,if a person slaves over something through out their life as Lee did with JKD they would not wish to see it go to hell. If everything that he taught is being thrown out the window than nothing else besides his styles name is simply being used to market whatever is being packaged as JKD today.Hardly something to be pleased over.

Many people agree that is why a branch of his students have kept alot of what he taught instead of getting rid of it.

The whole "it depends on the individual" is nonsensical bullshit that alot of TMAers have resulted to because of their lack of ability to prove techniques/styles. There are things called biomechanics and biophysics. So to say that "oh it depends on the person" is bullshit. Even bruce lee said to punch from your hip.

If you're going to attempt to come as an enlightened you may want to lay back on the low brow cursing. First of all there was no point in comparing the strait blast to the cross. I wasn't even interested in discussing the strait blast to begin with and it was only brought up because i mentioned a JKD instructor's name who wrote a book on said technique.

And no, IT DOES depend on the individual for example some people can deliver more power in a lead leg side kick than one from the back or a lead hook than rear one. Trying to argue that there are no exceptions is ridiculous and incredibly narrow minded or to put it simply... bullshit.

Here is a wild idea, why not listen to the man who actually spent and trained with bruce lee more than anyone else in the world? Why not listen to the man that Bruce Lee's family entrusted with the training of Bruce Lee's children?

Yes you are right because never in the history of martial arts have styles become watered down because they were passed on to the wrong people. By god that is just so unheard of it just happens to be common in the history of martial arts. LOLOLOL


I am still amazed at the thought process of sherdogers or the lack thereof i should say.

 

[nefti]

so pray tell who are the students of Bruce Lee that are "keeping what he taught wihtout getting rid of it"?

Also how do you know what Dan Inosanto "got rid of"?