Jeet Kune Do

[LEGS MAHONEY]

so pray tell who are the students of Bruce Lee that are "keeping what he taught wihtout getting rid of it"?

Um.. why are you asking? Shouldnt you know? The Original Jkd branch are headed by Ted wong,James lee, taky kimura and Jerry Poteet. They teach exactly what Bruce passed on to them but believe in the styles growth with out removing it's techniques that are already there. A logical approach.

Also how do you know what Dan Inosanto "got rid of"?

LOL Have you ever bothered to view anything from the jkd concepts branch?

 

[mikiemike87]

I'm currently reading one of his compilation of notes on the concept of Jeet Kune Do. Like others have said, I believe its more of a philosophy than a fighting style. Bruce Lee critically looked at the pros and cons of all the martial arts he studied and encouraged everyone else to do so also. Bruce Lee believed in the means to an end, so whatever worked.

However to call JKD more like MMA is false I believe. Lee made it very clear that its different from Thai boxing in the sense that in a real fight there are no rounds, and there are no rules. So obviously the limitations of thai boxing and mma in general are there are no foul tactics which wont be able to fully prepare you for a fight where anything could happen. What is interesting to note is I believe Anderson Silva embodies JKD the best in MMA imo, you always see him trying to incorporate moves from other martial arts. Aikido being the latest one, and its really hard these days to pinpoint a "style" he uses in his stand up, plus he uses the front side kick the best in mma =D.

 

[YukisHeart]

I have some sympathy for the "original" JKD crowd, because saying "JKD is whatever works for the individual" is a cop-out (in the right circumstances hitting a guy with a chair can be JKD with this definition) and there are a lot of false masters out there pretending they teach JKD because it was never copy-righted. When they're trying to preserve its integrity, that's laudable.

However, when they're trying to pretend that JKD can only ever be exactly what Bruce taught because they see money to be made in passing themselves of as the guardians of the "authentic" Bruce Lee fighting method, that's bad. Especially when they are willing to snipe at Dan Inosanto to do so.

We don't need to get into an artsy-fartsy was it a style, was it a philosophy etc. discussion to settle the Original versus Concepts debate. We just need to look at the two schools' respective practitioners. By which I mean to say, who at the end of the day are the superior martial artists? I'm not sure about you guys, but I reckon Dan Inosanto will kick Ted Wong's ass all day long. Ditto, say, Rick Young versus Tommy Carruthers, if we go down to the second generation.

Isn't that what really matters? Who has the better fighters?

 

[Too Defensive**]

Here is a wild idea, why not listen to the man who actually spent and trained with bruce lee more than anyone else in the world? Why not listen to the man that Bruce Lee's family entrusted with the training of Bruce Lee's children?

Here's a wild idea, why not listen to the actual words that came out of Bruce Lee's mouth? Why not study the techniques he actualy wrote down from pen to paper?

 

[Lionidas]

I'm currently reading one of his compilation of notes on the concept of Jeet Kune Do. Like others have said, I believe its more of a philosophy than a fighting style. Bruce Lee critically looked at the pros and cons of all the martial arts he studied and encouraged everyone else to do so also. Bruce Lee believed in the means to an end, so whatever worked.

However to call JKD more like MMA is false I believe. Lee made it very clear that its different from Thai boxing in the sense that in a real fight there are no rounds, and there are no rules. So obviously the limitations of thai boxing and mma in general are there are no foul tactics which wont be able to fully prepare you for a fight where anything could happen. What is interesting to note is I believe Anderson Silva embodies JKD the best in MMA imo, you always see him trying to incorporate moves from other martial arts. Aikido being the latest one, and its really hard these days to pinpoint a "style" he uses in his stand up, plus he uses the front side kick the best in mma =D.

Well said. I actually agree about Silva being the closest to Bruce's style. Using many different forms of martial arts, but only using the moves that work in a fight.

 

[nefti]

Here's a wild idea, why not listen to the actual words that came out of Bruce Lee's mouth? Why not study the techniques he actualy wrote down from pen to paper?

because the so called "writings" of bruce lee are only a glimpse of his total views that were ever evolving and changing.

 

[mikiemike87]

I have some sympathy for the "original" JKD crowd, because saying "JKD is whatever works for the individual" is a cop-out (in the right circumstances hitting a guy with a chair can be JKD with this definition) and there are a lot of false masters out there pretending they teach JKD because it was never copy-righted. When they're trying to preserve its integrity, that's laudable.

I don't think it is a cop out, because Bruce Lee seemed opposed to using a weapon. I recall reading an example he made about a man with a knife versus an unarmed man. He says the man with the knife becomes fixated on only using the knife whereas the unarmed man has more tools available to him. I believe this ties into his belief that more than just the fundamentals of JKD, he emphasizes the need to honestly express ourselves totally and completely through the use of our body. I believe in that sense, using a chair, or any other kind of weapon is counter intuitive to Lee's philosophy of discovering ourselves through understanding our bodies as a total unit. One could argue that a weapon can become an extension of one's body, but personally I'd like to think Bruce Lee was more fixated on how to bring out the full potential of the human body without the use of weapons. I could be wrong, and maybe I'm misrepresenting the JKD philosophy, but I believe Bruce Lee intended JKD to be more of an individual journey rather a holistic one.So the history, names, and direction Lee's students are taking JKD in is rather moot in my eyes.

 

[dat1978]

Here's a wild idea, why not listen to the actual words that came out of Bruce Lee's mouth? Why not study the techniques he actualy wrote down from pen to paper?

its funny because guro inosanto does do this. he still teaches much of the curriculum that bruce taught, its just that he added other arts as well. however, there is a clear distinction and he states it in class and its built into his school. that's why he has a jkd class, a kali/escrima class, bjj, thai boxing, etc... all separate. the big thing with inosanto is that he also encourages you to take all that material you learn and blend them aka use what works for you from those arts.

you keep saying he did a 180 from what bruce taught, but you obviously don't know what you are talking about or have no first hand experience. he does teach this, its just that he also teaches a lot more too.

 

[mjw1]

What I don't get with JKD is why can't anyone in it be said to surpass Bruce Lee as most MA one day the sucessors surpass and become better or evole the art/sport to a higher level for the time???

 

[Evan_The_Kid_1]

uhh what? i think bruce lee would be proud of the direction that inosanto went with what he was taught by bruce.

i agree. bruce would be sad if he saw his "art" exactly how it was almost 50 years ago

 

[Too Defensive**]

i agree. bruce would be sad if he saw his "art" exactly how it was almost 50 years ago

Lemme ask you this, why would bruce want boxing, MT, escrima etc added to his art? I mean you guys act as if these arts are new developments. They were around when Bruce was alive. He saw what they had to offer, and he created his own style. So by adding these styles to it, Inosanto is moving backward.


The same exact physics and body mechanicis that were true in Bruces day, are still true today. Nothing has changed. Humans have not grown extra limbs. JKD is based on these universal truths. He might want to emphasize grappling a little more if he were alive, but the stand up is complete.
JKD is supposed to be about removing the excess and having something simple. NOt piling more crap onto it.

Bruce would have a seizure if he saw the state of JKD

 

[Shulom1***]

Lemme ask you this, why would bruce want boxing, MT, escrima etc added to his art? I mean you guys act as if these arts are new developments. They were around when Bruce was alive. He saw what they had to offer, and he created his own style. So by adding these styles to it, Inosanto is moving backward.

JKD is supposed to be about removing the excess and having something simple. NOt piling more crap onto it.

Bruce would have a seizure if he saw the state of JKD

pure bullshit dude. How much exposure did he have to Muay Thai and BJJ before died? How can someone claim to know self defense without knowing knife defence? The grappling in Jun Fan Gung Fu is inadequate by todays standards, you need to know BJJ. The is no clinch work in Jun Fan. What the hell would you do against a thai boxers clinch? The trapping patterns are dead and complicated, yet are one of the 5 ways of attack, how do you make them live and simple enough to pull off in MMA/ sparring? Not one single OJKD person can say OJKD was the end all be all. The fact BL changed modified and experimented up until his death speaks loads about the development that would have occurred over 50 years. Case in point BL went from this

YouTube - Bruce Lee - Wing Chun

to this
YouTube - Bruce Lee in Enter the Dragon - First Fight
( yes its from a movie but illustrates his direction in his own martial development)
in five years.

Get over it dude. absorb what is useful and reject what is useless. remember its just a name get over it.

 

[Too Defensive**]

pure bullshit dude. How much exposure did he have to Muay Thai and BJJ before died? How can someone claim to know self defense without knowing knife defence? The grappling in Jun Fan Gung Fu is inadequate by todays standards, you need to know BJJ. The is no clinch work in Jun Fan. What the hell would you do against a thai boxers clinch? The trapping patterns are dead and complicated, yet are one of the 5 ways of attack, how do you make them live and simple enough to pull off in MMA/ sparring? Not one single OJKD person can say OJKD was the end all be all. The fact BL changed modified and experimented up until his death speaks loads about the development that would have occurred over 50 years. Case in point BL went from this

YouTube - Bruce Lee - Wing Chun

to this
YouTube - Bruce Lee in Enter the Dragon - First Fight
( yes its from a movie but illustrates his direction in his own martial development)
in five years.

Get over it dude. absorb what is useful and reject what is useless. remember its just a name get over it.

read my post again dude. Dude, I said maybe grappling, but the stand up is complete dude. Body mechanics, what JKD is based on, is the same now as it was back then. If you dispute this fact, you have no idea what your talking about. Are you trying to tell me Bruce had no exposure to Boxing back then? JKD has boxing elements in it.

Further more, Boxing and MT are SPORTS! He knew this fact and based his style on this fact. Why add Sports to his style? try again dude

 

[yodaman]

Lemme ask you this, why would bruce want boxing, MT, escrima etc added to his art? I mean you guys act as if these arts are new developments. They were around when Bruce was alive. He saw what they had to offer, and he created his own style. So by adding these styles to it, Inosanto is moving backward.

In numerous interviews, Bruce was noted to have a rudimentary at best grasp of MT, noting that he found some things that he liked, but criticized what he saw as poor boxing, not realizing the importance of elbows. Like I've noted before, Bruce had about 1/10th of the resources available today to study arts, including stuff that only fairly recently we've started to take for granted, like Youtube. Now think about it: if Bruce had access to those materials, and was able to look at dozens if not hundreds of Wing Chun vs Style X, Boxing vs. Style X, MT vs. Style X, the K-1 and K-2 tournaments, "Fighting Black Kings" etc, don't you think that all of that material might have profoundly affected his study? Especially as he was a noted boxing fan. You don't think seeing Ernesto Hoost in K-2 using a MT + Boxing combination defeat a Praying Mantis Kung Fu practioner, an American style kickboxer, and a pure Thai boxer would cause him to rethink what he considered effective striking?

 

[Shulom1***]

read my post again dude. Dude, I said maybe grappling, but the stand up is complete dude. Body mechanics, what JKD is based on, is the same now as it was back then. If you dispute this fact, you have no idea what your talking about. Are you trying to tell me Bruce had no exposure to Boxing back then? JKD has boxing elements in it.

Further more, Boxing and MT are SPORTS! He knew this fact and based his style on this fact. Why add Sports to his style? try again dude

So was the savate he took all of the kick from in JFGF! It's so easy to knee to the balls and elbow the temples and headbutt from the clinch! It doesn't matter if they are sports! you can add eye jabs to muay thai or boxing or savate for that matter easy by just training eye jabs!

that said, there is a discrepancy between Ted Wong's and the other OJKDers stance. The Wednesday Night Group, Jerry Poteet, and others ( excluding Taky, he uses the WC stance).

And I want to clarify if you take the JKD class at inosanto's academy all you learn is OJKD. All he does is promote cross training in other arts. Never does he say that Kali or BJJ is JFGF ever! If you go to a Wed. Night Group class, Poteet or Inosanto, The JKD curriculum is the same.

Cross training and breaking out of the mold of JFGF is the Concepts part, but JFGF will always be JFGF, and Dan will never change that, or say something else is JFGF when it is not in the OJKD curriculum. Remember Taky use to refer student to Dan before his son started teaching

 

[Shulom1***]

In numerous interviews, Bruce was noted to have a rudimentary at best grasp of MT, noting that he found some things that he liked, but criticized what he saw as poor boxing, not realizing the importance of elbows. Like I've noted before, Bruce had about 1/10th of the resources available today to study arts, including stuff that only fairly recently we've started to take for granted, like Youtube. Now think about it: if Bruce had access to those materials, and was able to look at dozens if not hundreds of Wing Chun vs Style X, Boxing vs. Style X, MT vs. Style X, the K-1 and K-2 tournaments, "Fighting Black Kings" etc, don't you think that all of that material might have profoundly affected his study? Especially as he was a noted boxing fan. You don't think seeing Ernesto Hoost in K-2 using a MT + Boxing combination defeat a Praying Mantis Kung Fu practioner, an American style kickboxer, and a pure Thai boxer would cause him to rethink what he considered effective striking?

This ^

 

[ASEGSEA]

In numerous interviews, Bruce was noted to have a rudimentary at best grasp of MT, noting that he found some things that he liked, but criticized what he saw as poor boxing, not realizing the importance of elbows. Like I've noted before, Bruce had about 1/10th of the resources available today to study arts, including stuff that only fairly recently we've started to take for granted, like Youtube. Now think about it: if Bruce had access to those materials, and was able to look at dozens if not hundreds of Wing Chun vs Style X, Boxing vs. Style X, MT vs. Style X, the K-1 and K-2 tournaments, "Fighting Black Kings" etc, don't you think that all of that material might have profoundly affected his study? Especially as he was a noted boxing fan. You don't think seeing Ernesto Hoost in K-2 using a MT + Boxing combination defeat a Praying Mantis Kung Fu practioner, an American style kickboxer, and a pure Thai boxer would cause him to rethink what he considered effective striking?

This seems the most feasible of the arguements in this thread. You can't be fluid and adaptable like water by sticking to only certain martial arts. I wonder how Bruce would think if he were alive today with the vast amount of resources available. That's what this thread is addressing, of course, but it's cool to think about Bruce grappling with nun-chucks.

 

[td82394]

Bruce Lee would've loved Krav Maga. It's like everything he believed in on steroids. I think he also would've liked MMA and Kajukenbo.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

In numerous interviews, Bruce was noted to have a rudimentary at best grasp of MT, noting that he found some things that he liked, but criticized what he saw as poor boxing, not realizing the importance of elbows. Like I've noted before, Bruce had about 1/10th of the resources available today to study arts, including stuff that only fairly recently we've started to take for granted, like Youtube. Now think about it: if Bruce had access to those materials, and was able to look at dozens if not hundreds of Wing Chun vs Style X, Boxing vs. Style X, MT vs. Style X, the K-1 and K-2 tournaments, "Fighting Black Kings" etc, don't you think that all of that material might have profoundly affected his study? Especially as he was a noted boxing fan. You don't think seeing Ernesto Hoost in K-2 using a MT + Boxing combination defeat a Praying Mantis Kung Fu practioner, an American style kickboxer, and a pure Thai boxer would cause him to rethink what he considered effective striking?

Bruce didn't seem to have many delusions about martial arts and i don't think you tube is a great source for knowledge on it at all . In fact it has been a source for many peoples backwards education on different styles.

 

[yodaman]

Bruce didn't seem to have many delusions about martial arts and i don't think you tube is a great source for knowledge on it at all . In fact it has been a source for many peoples backwards education on different styles.

I'm not saying he had delusions, I'm just saying that realistically, any living human being from the 70's did not have the information available to them today due to technological limitations. And I think that access to those resources might have changed things.