Is anyone really trying to physically fight a Tyrranical U.S Government?

[ultramanhyata]

The Fed won't attack it's own citizens, because it fears repercussions.

If they do - and they have to use things like chemical weapons, drones, nukes, etc... they've already lost - because they will lose the entirety of the populations support, including most of the military.

But they won't do any of that, because they know it's a bad idea - because we're armed to the fucking teeth.

It is circular logic, but that circular logic keeps us safe. It's the same thing as the MAD principle during the Cold War.

"They won't bomb us, because we will bomb them. We won't bomb them, because they will bomb us." was the idea.

The 2nd Amendment is the sword and shield, that keeps the government in check - and doesn't allow them to go rogue or become a tyranny.

So a rogue government is only willing to use as much military force and technology as can be held off by resistance fighters with AR-15's. They won't dare up the ante. Solid argument.

 

[Byron Carter]

So a rogue government is only willing to use as much military force and technology as can be held off by resistance fighters with AR-15's. They won't dare up the ante. Solid argument.

It has to balance "winning" with "publicity". In a civil war, or even a conventional war - killing all of the 'bad guys' is not the only victory condition. Because if you do it so indiscriminately that you're creating more enemies, for every enemy you kill... the war will never end.

 

[panamaican]

I don't see how.

I think the closest example we have of that is IRA in Britain. A group that made coordinated attacks on a large, Western democracy with great military power. And, as far as I know, their attacks were mostly bombings of different buildings and economic hubs.

It's not like they were taking entire towns and regions. They're not ISIS. A large number of firearms of the type that are available for the public in the US are certainly needed for that sort of warfare.

Obviously you need SOME weapons for IRA-style terrorism, but this "every citizen with a rifle" stuff that the NRA fantasizes about is useless.

But the OP wasn't about the NRA's platform specifically. It was about the broader question of if/how these people could possibly envision fighting the U.S. government. And, as you recognize, they will need some firearms. I have no idea how to plan or organize or manage some kind of guerrilla insurgency but privately owned weapons will certainly be instrumental, if only for personal protection against arrest.

 

[Rational Poster]

McVeigh was one man.

Waco was a handful of men.

Vietnam and Afghanistan were small, backwards countries.

No one wants a violent confrontation, but if the government becomes a tyrant and starts marching people to camps, or trying to enslave us - there will be resistance, and we will win.

McVeigh was captured, and he didn't win.

The people at Waco mostly burned to death or suffocated, they didn't win.

Vietnam and Afghanistan were supplied arms from major first world military powers in near limitless supply. The Vietnamese were fielding the most advanced surface to air missile defense system we had ever encountered.

 

[ultramanhyata]

It has to balance "winning" with "publicity". In a civil war, or even a conventional war - killing all of the 'bad guys' is not the only victory condition. Because if you do it so indiscriminately that you're creating more enemies, for every enemy you kill... the war will never end.

So do you or do you not believe that banning sales of high-caliber semi-autos and large capacity magazines leaves the populace susceptible to enslavement by a tyrannical government?

 

[Soul Crusher]

 

[Seaside]

I don't really want to get into the gritty details, but it's not impossible.

Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc.

Also - there are ways of communication that don't involve cell-phone towers. And once again, if the government has to seize control of the media and cell phone towers by force, they're not exactly winning hearts and minds.

how would you know though? if you live in some place in texas but they take over the media center in los angeles and new york how would you know? they could purge people and you would not know you might hear rumors on social media or youtube but are you going to get in your car or plane and go there with your gun to fight 'government' ?

 

[Byron Carter]

So do you or do you not believe that banning sales of high-caliber semi-autos and large capacity magazines leaves the populace susceptible to enslavement by a tyrannical government?

Yes, I believe that taking away the 2nd Amendment, makes the American people more likely to fall victim to a predatory government.

 

[Whippy McGee]

In the view of many, they are currently "physically" fighting a "tyrannical" U.S. Government. While, I don't agree with their views people in: Afghanistan, Iraq/Syria, African Nations, and other places in the world have done well against the U.S. Viet Nam is an instance of "success" for those opposing the U.S.

A main reason for the 2nd Amendment is to allow U.S. Citizens the same "small arm" as light infantryman. That does not mean grenades and rocket launchers, but it does mean a gun like an AR-15. While not fully automatic, the concession by those supporting the Bill of Rights and our Freedoms is that they can be easily converted should U.S. Citizens have to stand up against a tyrannical government. With past indicators, "We the People" would be very successful in such an endeavor. Let's just hope it never comes to that.

 

[Seaside]

McVeigh was captured, and he didn't win.

The people at Waco mostly burned to death or suffocated, they didn't win.

Vietnam and Afghanistan were supplied arms from major first world military powers in near limitless supply. The Vietnamese were fielding the most advanced surface to air missile defense system we had ever encountered.

since USA has armed rebels, terrorists and right wing dicatorships all over world and still does (Sisi in egypt etc) not be surprised if US had civil war that other countries would not want to profit, fund rebels, sell weapons both sides and help put a right wing dicatorship in power in US. (do not say trump guy is not a dictator) you want real dictators look to Americas CIA actions and history in latin america. real dictatorship= opposition is destroyed

 

[Rational Poster]

since USA has armed rebels, terrorists and right wing dicatorships all over world and still does (Sisi in egypt etc) not be surprised if US had civil war that other countries would not want to profit, fund rebels, sell weapons both sides and help put a right wing dicatorship in power in US. (do not say trump guy is not a dictator) you want real dictators look to Americas CIA actions and history in latin america. real dictatorship= opposition is destroyed

Those countries would have a difficult time getting anything past our Navy and air force.

I don't believe they would be able to sustain a longer-term insurrection the way we can and the us military would retaliate with full force.

 

[Slick_36]

It funny how the same people saying we can never stop terrorist in the middle East because it's their home turf believe the government here could stop a better armed population here.

As Voltaire said, "History is filled with the sound of silk slippers going downstairs and wooden shoes coming up". I believe there's enough Americans who are still tough and willing to fight off the government if they pushed them to it, but war is hell and the people growing up in hell since birth are going to fare much better in those conditions than a coddled nation of wealth. There's obviously a lot of people who don't think that the people can win out against the government. The military would be fractured though and fighting the people ruthlessly will lose American support and cause the world to take our side against a government that would turn against them after.

 

[Seaside]

Those countries would have a difficult time getting anything past our Navy and air force.

I don't believe they would be able to sustain a longer-term insurrection the way we can and the us military would retaliate with full force.

yeah forgot about that as long as your military is functional nobody could get it across except maybe mexico the border right? but military be on border i bet to stop it

 

[Bay Area]

LoL @ "in their home where their children live".

MaudeFlandersThinkOfTheChildren.jpg

Yes TS: every gun owner is literally Timothy McVeigh.

In my HOME!!!!
WHERE MY WIFE SLEEPS?!!!
And my children come to play with their toys... In my home.

 

[Rational Poster]

It has to balance "winning" with "publicity". In a civil war, or even a conventional war - killing all of the 'bad guys' is not the only victory condition. Because if you do it so indiscriminately that you're creating more enemies, for every enemy you kill... the war will never end.

You're talking about an armed insurrection against the US government and the majority of the people.

It would be a war for survival like the Civil War and we will burn the entire state of Georgia to the ground again if we have to.

 

[Cuzcatlan]

Can you name a single government in human history that hasn't abused people?

Even our government locked up the Japanese-Americans in camps, and pushed Native Americans to the brink of extinction.

A rogue government isn't a fantasy - its the norm. It's every government, ever.

This is the confusing thing about liberals. They talk about how the US has been a evil force around the world. But the mention of the second amendment and it's all " tyrannical government is a right wing fantasy."

 

[ultramanhyata]

Yes, I believe that taking away the 2nd Amendment, makes the American people more likely to fall victim to a predatory government.

Not what I asked.

Your position (which is, to be fair, the position of all NRA hardcores) on the relationship between an armed citizenry and a nation safe from tyrannical overthrow is nonsensical.

 

[EZShrimpn]

I'd rather just let secession happen than have a civil war in the modern era. It would be uglier than anyone here can imagine.

 

[hillelslovak87]

The fantasy isn't the rogue government part. It's the citizens standing their ground against a first-world, 21st century rogue government part.

But Vietnam beat us. (They say, not realizing the difference or profundity of the modern day military.)

 

[JosephDredd]

Leftists don't study history. So many nations crushed by tyranny because the people didn't have guns.

I've got my guns and I know how to use them if somebody comes for my freedom.