I'm going to a Bernie Sanders town hall tonight in Detroit.

[Anung Un Rama]

Cut military spending in half.

By 2/3

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Everyone knows that Trump would have won if Bernie ran. It doesn't take a crystal ball to understand the basic logic of why a third party run would crush any Democrat's chances.

If Bernie stole a net 1% of the votes from Hillary (he would take some from Trump too) that would have tanked her campaign. 1% loss would lose to a GOP united around one candidate. And Bernie has a large following and would have certainly taken more of the vote than that. He may have taken one of the big electoral states from Hillary, but it would have only taken one of the states in the rust belt. You're being silly.

Everybody knew Clinton was going to win in a landslide. Cut it out. You don't know what would have happened.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I think I thought of a single payer option that americans might get behind, and it also solves another massive issue
How about all adults now have to at least go to bootcamp......not mandatory service afterwards, but at least the basic training portion.
1) it opens up people's eyes, experiencing multiple cultures and walks of life coming together for a common task and purpose.
2) forces people to go through adversity, aka 'embrace the suck' something that surely is missing from such an entitled generation. Also going through it w/ other people (minorities, sexual orientation, religion, etc..) would likely lessen any lingering resentments or biases
3) then everyone gets put on a revamped, single payer version of the VA.....
4) forced exercise and dieting, maybe can go some way towards combating future obesity issues, thus lowering overall health care costs
5) perhaps even offer a minimized GI Bill to help w/ college funding, not the same for full tenured service veterans but something....

people won't resent paying for others that didn't earn it, it's patriotic in a way, can take some of the bloated DoD and VA budgets, etc....

obviously elderly/disabled/others would be grandfathered in, but this applies for both sexes too.

Who's with me?

I wouldn't tie it to healthcare, but I think a year of service or something would be a good idea. Don't like the idea of forcing it, but maybe there can be a way to incentivize it. Maybe some tax benefit for employers who hire people who go through it, college credits, and a cash payout to the volunteers. Plus an ad campaign and attempts to normalize it culturally.

 

[RockstarChris]

He already redistributed his wealth to me.



I'm all for sending some of my shit head cousins to basic. Against their will haha.

 

[Jack V Savage]

You said Bernie dropped out because it would guarantee a Trump victory.

Bernie dropped out and Trump won.

So Bernie, why did you not run third party and break the wheel?

He didn't know Trump would win. Based on the information available at the time, he made the right decision. What possible benefit would be had by guaranteeing a big win for Trump? Bernie isn't as callous as a lot of his supporters.

 

[Jack V Savage]

1. Supporters aren't worried about the cost? Only you are? Weird, an arrogant hipster like thing to proclaim seeing as I'm a supporter and I'm discussing the costs. Never one ever did I say, cost doesn't matter?

I think there's some self-righteousness on both sides, which hurts the overall cause. We all agree that everyone should have affordable coverage, but I see a lot of people act like it's just virtuous single-payer supporters against corrupt monsters, when as kpt points out, there are legitimate issues. So now he's throwing a little of that back. Natural reaction, but then you get animosity splitting the UHC people, while the "if they want a doctor, they should make more money" people are more united.

So, yeah, TS shouldn't be an asshole to Bernie, but it's a good idea to raise some of those issues. Single payer might be better but the transition is very difficult. A lot of the popularity of single payer would fall if the situation were laid out more clearly, and in the past, attempts to get it have been an obstacle to real reform. I think the solution is to continue to make smaller improvements--expand Medicaid up the income scale and Medicare down the age scale, strengthen subsidies, work on more cost-cutting, and ultimately maybe allow people to pay catastrophic coverage through the gov't.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

He didn't know Trump would win. Based on the information available at the time, he made the right decision. What possible benefit would be had by guaranteeing a big win for Trump? Bernie isn't as callous as a lot of his supporters.

No, but he knew he didn't want Clinton as POTUS or he wouldn't have run at all. If he runs third party he has a chance.

This is also a more nuanced question than your giving credit. His answer of course would be"I didn't want Teump to win and I made a promise to the DNC that I wouldn't".

Yeah, well, Trump won and the DNC sabotaged you. So again, why didn't you run 3rd party?

And it's not callous at all. You can't expect change to occur by doing the same thing *looks at belly*looks over at unused gym membership

 

[Burning Hammer]

I didn't say it was capitalism that was the system of failed design, nor did i say "fuck capitalism," you goddamn halfwit. You can have capitalism and retain market logic in a capitalist system that isn't corrupted to the impossible extent that the 2017 US political economy is.

Also, lol @ you thinking every poor person has those amenities. What a stupid fucking twat you are. You're completely denying the existence of the (considerable) indigent underclass in the richest country in the world, while glorifying its undisputedly flawed system of resource allocation, when meanwhile some of the poorest countries in the world are able to care for their poor with either radical reversals of capitalist logic or pragmatic democratic amendments to it.

Adhominem's

I win, just like Capitalism won the Cold War. GG EZ

 

[HunterSdVa29]

I wouldn't tie it to healthcare, but I think a year of service or something would be a good idea. Don't like the idea of forcing it, but maybe there can be a way to incentivize it. Maybe some tax benefit for employers who hire people who go through it, college credits, and a cash payout to the volunteers. Plus an ad campaign and attempts to normalize it culturally.

all fair pts, i was just trying to combine our love (and funding) for defense w/ healthcare somehow, and education by proxy

i also firmly believe those pts about lessening racial bias and other things.

 

[Jack V Savage]

No, but he knew he didn't want Clinton as POTUS or he wouldn't have run at all. If he runs third party he has a chance.

This is also a more nuanced question than your giving credit. His answer of course would be"I didn't want Teump to win and I made a promise to the DNC that I wouldn't".

Yeah, well, Trump won and the DNC sabotaged you. So again, why didn't you run 3rd party?

And it's not callous at all. You can't expect change to occur by doing the same thing *looks at belly*looks over at unused gym membership

He wanted to be president. I don't think he had any particular problem with Clinton winning if he couldn't. And what I mean by callous is that a lot of people are hurt by bad policy. For example, we came very close to millions of Americans losing their healthcare coverage. That would be a really tough thing for a guy like Bernie to have on his conscience. It's easy for a lot of us with relatively comfortable lives to say, "it's worth a short-term setback to blow everything up and restart," but what about people who are on the border and are seriously hurt by that short-term setback?

all fair pts, i was just trying to combine our love (and funding) for defense w/ healthcare somehow, and education by proxy

i also firmly believe those pts about lessening racial bias and other things.

Agreed.

 

[Fluffernutter]

"You've been in congress since 1990. What is your proudest accomplishment as a member of congress during these 27 years?"

 

[Anung Un Rama]

He wanted to be president. I don't think he had any particular problem with Clinton winning if he couldn't. And what I mean by callous is that a lot of people are hurt by bad policy. For example, we came very close to millions of Americans losing their healthcare coverage. That would be a really tough thing for a guy like Bernie to have on his conscience. It's easy for a lot of us with relatively comfortable lives to say, "it's worth a short-term setback to blow everything up and restart," but what about people who are on the border and are seriously hurt by that short-term setback?



Agreed.

I believe Sanders got into the race because he saw a steady drift to the the right from the party that had traditionally represented the left.
And there are ways to offset projected damages to people; something akin to TAA that accompanies large trade agreements? Its also important to have a comprehensive plan so you can roll things out methodically so as to attenuate any shock.

 

[Quipling]

Adhominem's

I win, just like Capitalism won the Cold War. GG EZ

An ad hominem (two words, not possessive) is a logical fallacy wherein somebody says that the reason you are wrong is because you are a stupid twat. He provided actual argument, and called you a stupid twat, but did not rest his arguments on the latter. That is what we call an insulting observation, not an ad hominem.

 

[Burning Hammer]

An ad hominem (two words, not possessive) is a logical fallacy wherein somebody says that the reason you are wrong is because you are a stupid twat. He provided actual argument, and called you a stupid twat, but did not rest his arguments on the latter. That is what we call an insulting observation, not an ad hominem.

Well thank you for the correction, I didn't read the rest of his post tbh

 

[Trotsky]

Adhominem's

I win, just like Capitalism won the Cold War. GG EZ

So you waive a white flag on (a) there being a difference between the American economy and more efficient and meritocratic capitalist variants, and (b) that the American underclass has a (wildly) disproportionately small share of the nation's wealth compared to other countries with similar and dissimilar economic formats.

 

[scoopj]

Right, which is why I want to know why single payer is better than fixing those failings. Personally, I don't think it is.

I agree with a focus on reducing healthcare costs (drug prices are a good start) and agree that the goal should be 100% coverage, but we do not need a single payer to accomplish those.

I haven't seen Bernie mount a good defense against the problems with a single payer.

Sounds like you have a dog in this fight.

 

[ultramanhyata]

if you listen to the average bernie speech on the campaign trail and replace "millionaires", "billionaires", "1%ers" etc. with "jews" then he makes the exact same arguments that hitler made about greedy jewish bankers ruining germany

its funny that people act like his was the message of love

One of your dumbest posts yet. Nice job. Keep up the good work.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Sounds like you have a dog in this fight.

More like a grizzly bear. He's shilling hard for the insurance industry. Sad!

 

[Quipling]

I believe he answered something along those lines at a debate. He had some decent redmeat answer about a bipartisan bill he worked on helping veterans.

if you listen to the average bernie speech on the campaign trail and replace "millionaires", "billionaires", "1%ers" etc. with "jews" then he makes the exact same arguments that hitler made about greedy jewish bankers ruining germany

its funny that people act like his was the message of love

If you take the phrase "murdering is bad" and replace "murdering" with "potato" you basically have nonsense. I guess that means murdering is bad is a nonsense phrase???? wow. crazy how changing words in a sentence changes the meaning.

 

[Pwent]

I believe he answered something along those lines at a debate. He had some decent redmeat answer about a bipartisan bill he worked on helping veterans.

If you take the phrase "murdering is bad" and replace "murdering" with "potato" you basically have nonsense. I guess that means murdering is bad is a nonsense phrase???? wow. crazy how changing words in a sentence changes the meaning.

All of our problems are because ___ are too greedy and ruining the lives of hard working families. ____ have too much wealth and aren't doing their fair share for the country, like leeches living on the back of the working class. I will solve our problems by taking more from _____ and giving it to those who deserve it.

If you want Hitler, insert Jews on the blank. If you want Bernie, insert millionaires and billionaires