If you hate Danaher for his teaching style.. you have to Hate Hall

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by jack36767, Jun 9, 2018.

  1. jack36767

    jack36767 Brown Belt

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    So I had had a chance to actually watch more of the Danaher instructional in depth. Whereas before it was just a few times watching different sections..

    And you know what.. people are whiny ass blankety blank blank hypocrites.

    I said this before but I know for super duper sure now. Every criticism of Danahers style applies to Ryan Hall. Yet you don’t see the same level of hate. In fact people gush over Hall. Hmmm let’s go through some of the criticisms that apply to both.

    1. Overly verbose - check
    2. Wastes a obnoxious amount of time explaining engineering shit instead of teaching - check
    3. Overly philosophical and using fancy terms - check
    4. Could cut out at LEAST a third of the time - check
    5. Could effectively explain all the concepts way quicker and actually show the techniques in a much more effective Way- check
    6. Treats basic positioning stuff as amazing examples of the proof bin is soooo like omg technical - check
    7. Weird ass idiosyncrasies the instructor has - check
    8. Monotone voice that drones on - check
    9. I could go on
    So while I do not have a problem with the criticisms in general if they are rational. And I think some of the criticisms of his teaching style are valid. The amount of vitriol and hate and saying he’s “despicable” from some here and on reddit.. I really don’t get.

    I like Ryan Hall btw, I’m talking about instructionals. Not him

    And you know what, Danaher doesn’t blink constantly

    *yes I know Hall can’t control it. Still distracting


    And will someone please tell EvenFlow to actually go to a real gym to train, and not just a Gracie Barra McChain gym before suddenly being braggadocio
     
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  2. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Purple Belt

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    What would you say you're hoping to achieve with this thread?
     
  3. leaf22

    leaf22 White Belt

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    Hall and danaher are both amazing instructors.
    The people that complain about them are generally mental midgets
     
  4. jack36767

    jack36767 Brown Belt

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    That’s a good question. In part, to spark rational discussion on whether or not I’m crazy and imagining things. Which I don’t think I am, but I’ll actually discuss it. To maybe discuss teaching methods and how to present things and what people think is the best way when not being biased etc.

    A big part is I don’t like hypocrisy, to the point I constantly try to look at if I am being that way in my own life whether consciously or not. And I do find a lot of the criticisms of Danaher instruction style in particular to be hypocritical.

    It’s not really controversial to say that Bjj has a strong “intellectual” and “philosophical” bent in how a sizable portion of its clientele looks at it. To grossly simplify almost an “anti-jock” attitude. *ahem clearly I don’t mean everyone, it is a trend however. So when I look at the reasons many gush over Ryan Halls instructionals and the way he presents them, in that intellectual/philosophical sort of way. That doesn’t always present things in the most “efficient” manner. And then I see the same basic things in Danahers style but people freak out, I find it hypocritical.

    I like both of their instructionals.. it’s not the way I teach, I try to maximize student reps over talking. But I find them very valuable for many reason. I can also point out weaknesses that both share.. when being rational
     
  5. jack36767

    jack36767 Brown Belt

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    Like I said, I like both instructionals. I’m simply pointing out that the same critiques that one can point to in one the other has. No instructor is perfect,I’m just annoyed at people who gush over Halls stuff freaking out over Danaher.

    **for me Paul Shreiners stuff is one of the best compromises between that “intellectual” approach, and the just showing the move so people can rep it
     
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  6. Solidus Snake

    Solidus Snake Purple Belt

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    I don't know if it's just my impression, but I feel like there is a strange aura around Ryan Hall in some part of the jiu jitsu community, like he's some kind of grappling saint that can never say, or do something wrong. While I honestly like him and his instructionals, I find it silly.

    By the way, the only place I've ever seen bashing Danaher hard with a kind of majority, is Reddit (insert random "Danaher is a serial killer" joke that pretends to be funny).. I think that's enough said. Like or not his persona, he puts out solid knowledge and regularly produce great grapplers.. end of story, one can of course like more or less their teaching style, but they are objectively both great instructors.
     
  7. yetanother

    yetanother Brown Belt

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    You can skip most of the bullshit concepts sections of Ryan Hall and just watch the parts with actual info.
    I find Ryan Hall fun to listen while Danaher is just annoying.
     
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  8. EternalRag3

    EternalRag3 Rear Naked Poker

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    Is there another thread where this topic came up?

    ugh was this really necessary
     
  9. EndlessCritic

    EndlessCritic Gold Belt

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    Danaher is significantly more condescending than Hall.
     
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  10. jack36767

    jack36767 Brown Belt

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    Eh, I get the impression that that Ryan Hall is barely hiding a lot of disdain, Danaher at least doesn’t hide it
     
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  11. jack36767

    jack36767 Brown Belt

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    Yes


    He’s stated multiple times they barely roll or train hard. I started at a Gracie Barra and my coach was one of the first to talk about how uneven the quality is getting between gyms. Some are legit, more and more approach Mcdojo status.
     
  12. jack36767

    jack36767 Brown Belt

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    I literally did the same thing in Danahers instructional and skipped ahead to actual techniques.. what are you talking about. And yes I know your low self esteem leads you to think he’s evil and annoying. My point that literally every criticism for one applies to the other still remains
     
  13. mattemate

    mattemate Brown Belt

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    Yeah but at least Hall doesn't look like uncle Fester.

    Uncle Fester also has annoying cornering tendencies. Calls fighters by both firdfand last names. Very affected and pretentious.

    And the rash guard at all times.

    Hall is run of the mill ADHD kid.

    Danaher is the jiu-jitsu equivalent of a guy showing up to a party wearing a kilt and a bowler, with a parrot named Chalice on his shoulder, going around to every girl at the party and introducing himself as "Captain."

    They're in totally different leagues.
     
  14. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    I think halls dvd help a lot to lower belts, when you are a lower belt you really need to understand the why of things, looking at positions more then simple techniques... but if you are an experienced grappler, I doubt you can get through the whole conceptual way of teaching of Ryan. Though hes fun to listen to me. Danaher just sounds likes he’s tryng to hard, even though he might just be some kind of freak.
     
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  15. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    people hate on john cause people are little bitches online who can get away with being :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:s talking shit to people they see a guy like john who is highly educated and obviously smarter than 99% of people and it intimidates them ryan hall isnt much different really but he did compete at a high level so guys let him slide
     
  16. machomang

    machomang Orange Belt

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    But Danaher never competed.
     
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  17. esteven

    esteven Blue Belt

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    For class or seminar settings, I prefer it as concise as possible. If it's a regular class, then there's no need to slow down the class so that everyone gets every detail and concept for every technique right now; those will build over time regardless. In a seminar, retention is the key, so you don't want to waste rep time.

    In a video format, though, the instructor cannot give corrections to the students. Hall can't take a look at your triangle finish and diagnose any problems; instead, he has to make sure that you have all of the information you need to make that diagnosis yourself. Since a wide range of people buy video instructionals, that can mean including a LOT of info. Video instruction requires covering every base.

    The end result of this is that everyone who watches the videos will feel like it's an excesive amount of information, but if it WASN'T excessive, then a lot of those same people would be missing out on details that would have helped them. That's why Hall's stuff is so popular; it's not insufficient for anyone, and skipping ahead is easy.

    I would hate to attend a class or seminar taught the way either Hall or Danaher do their video instruction, but it's the ideal for the medium.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
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  18. jack36767

    jack36767 Brown Belt

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    lol
    If it was just the vocab I’d understand the hate. The rash guard tells me he’s genuinely off. I see it as severe ASD. Others choose not to.
     
  19. jack36767

    jack36767 Brown Belt

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    Logical discussion, love it
     
  20. jack36767

    jack36767 Brown Belt

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    So?
     

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