"If Khabib takes Tony down, he'll get beat up.Tony will cut him up from the ground." -Michael Chiesa

spannered said:
These are HWs though mate. You absolutely cannot compare their cardio to a LW. Khabib has never shown any signs of gassing, ever, even in the 3 round fights where he was pressing the action 100% of the time.
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you can because everyone gets tired. it's easier for HWs to get tired because they're bigger and the other person doing it to them is bigger, but no matter how good Khabib's cardio is, if he cannot rest when he needs to rest he will get tired. pacing and breathing are a big reason why people who don't gas don't gas. if Tony can interrupt either of those things he has a chance to gas Khabib.

scrambles will gas Khabib just like it will gas any other human being. fighting back will also stop Khabib from doing as much damage as he does to everyone else, because he'll be busy trying to secure position and scrambling to punch.

i'm not saying Khabib doesn't have good cardio, i'm saying that no matter how much cardio you have ANY human being will get tired if you make them work harder than they're used to. that's just how it works.
 
Zeppeling said:
Oh so you haven’t watched tony fight? Please see your way out of the thread
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I watched all of his last fights and the only that his guard looked good was against a gassed Kevin Lee. Can you name any other moments that he showed an amazing rubber guard and wizzard elbows ?
 
Pancake Sprawl said:
you can because everyone gets tired. it's easier for HWs to get tired because they're bigger and the other person doing it to them is bigger, but no matter how good Khabib's cardio is, if he cannot rest when he needs to rest he will get tired. pacing and breathing are a big reason why people who don't gas don't gas. if Tony can interrupt either of those things he has a chance to gas Khabib.

scrambles will gas Khabib just like it will gas any other human being. fighting back will also stop Khabib from doing as much damage as he does to everyone else, because he'll be busy trying to secure position and scrambling to punch.

i'm not saying Khabib doesn't have good cardio, i'm saying that no matter how much cardio you have ANY human being will get tired if you make them work harder than they're used to. that's just how it works.
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RDA never gets tired. Remember the Pettis fight?

Plus, it's no coincidence that most of Khabib's opponents gas when they usually have phenomenal cardio: you work much, much more trying to get up as opposed to keeping someone down. Coupled with the constant damage they take, it drains your tank HARD.

Maybe Tony can do something different, but he'd be the first to out-cardio Khabib.
 
If profighters were good betters they wouldnt be fighters. Basically whatever they have to say is just like joe schmoe IMO and a logical fallacy. Appeal to authority.

Khabib can control Tony if he passes guard which he;s shown to be an expert at.

Tony better be good at TDD after Khabib gases otherwise its all Khabibi IMO.

I think he will.
 
Lots of questions about beebs gas tank. I have questions myself as to whether he can go 25 minutes. However, his top pressure will test Tony’s tank as well. Tony will be constantly defending. He will get smothered. If he doesn’t wilt by the 5th I’ll be shocked. He’s got great cardio but this will be a pressure he’s never seen before. Such an intriguing match up. These two will bring out the best in each other.
 
Some of you guys just repeat anything you read on the forums. Khabib’s grip and wrist control is going to neutralize all this nonsense about elbows from Tony and the only time Tony’s elbows are even going to be above his face is to protect it from Khabib smashing him. It’s not going to be a good fight for Tony, he can hype himself up all he wants, call himself a bear or lion or pig or whatever animal he wants to be called this week, none of it will matter when Khabib gets him down.
 
People keep talking about Khabib gassing.

Ferguson's tank is the one that's going to be getting tested after a couple rounds of Khabib's insane top pressure and GnP.

Personally I'd much rather deal with Tony's bottom game then Khabib's top game.
 
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spannered said:
RDA never gets tired. Remember the Pettis fight?

Plus, it's no coincidence that most of Khabib's opponents gas when they usually have phenomenal cardio: you work much, much more trying to get up as opposed to keeping someone down. Coupled with the constant damage they take, it drains your tank HARD.

Maybe Tony can do something different, but he'd be the first to out-cardio Khabib.
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RDA never gets tired? do you remember the time he fought Ferguson?

he'd be the first to do anything to Khabib. that's my point. nobody knows how Khabib is when he's NOT winning, when he's NOT able to secure the takedown immediately, when he's NOT able to walk forward. BJ Penn looked like a monster too, as long as he was kicking your ass. once you started putting up resistance, he started getting less and less ferocious. Pettis looked like a monster too, until you pressure him with boxing and outpace him.

never allowing Khabib to take things for FREE is my point. he gets away with A LOT in his fights because of his aura of invincibility. and a lot of people Khabib mentally breaks. i don't think Tony will mentally break, and i think if he keeps his pace up with Khabib, Khabib won't be able to overwhelm him like he does to everyone else. i'm just saying, Tony can make it a fight, something Khabib hasn't had in a while.
 
Pancake Sprawl said:
RDA never gets tired? do you remember the time he fought Ferguson?

he'd be the first to do anything to Khabib. that's my point. nobody knows how Khabib is when he's NOT winning, when he's NOT able to secure the takedown immediately, when he's NOT able to walk forward. BJ Penn looked like a monster too, as long as he was kicking your ass. once you started putting up resistance, he started getting less and less ferocious. Pettis looked like a monster too, until you pressure him with boxing and outpace him.

never allowing Khabib to take things for FREE is my point. he gets away with A LOT in his fights because of his aura of invincibility. and a lot of people Khabib mentally breaks. i don't think Tony will mentally break, and i think if he keeps his pace up with Khabib, Khabib won't be able to overwhelm him like he does to everyone else. i'm just saying, Tony can make it a fight, something Khabib hasn't had in a while.
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I somewhat agree with everything you're saying, except RDA didn't get particularly tired against Ferg. He was getting battered and hurt. Plus the weight cut nearly shut his kidneys down.

Also, you're comparing Khabib to BJ in terms of mental fortitude? C'mon man. One has been a lifelong martial artist who doesn't drink, party and never stops training (when he's not injured), the other a guy who barely trained and partied a lot.

Also, Khabib had enormous trouble getting Tibau yo the mat about 5 years ago, but he never quit pressuring him.

Anyway, it's OK to have different opinions about things, but there is literally no reason to suggest that A) he won't be able to get Tony down, and B) he's been the most endurable fighter we've seen of late in three rounders. He could have easily taken another two round's after thrashing Barboza IMO.

Maybe I'm wrong and Tony works out a way to avoid punishment on the mat and threaten Khabib, but man, would I be shocked. This is a guy who literally wrestled bears as a child and was doing sambo before puberty.

Tony has been in trouble many times in fights against mid-tier guys, and that happens when you have a crazy style like his, but Khabib has such strong grappling fundamentals, I just can't see Tony being able to drag him into deep waters with getting exhausted from punishment and pressure first.

Hey, it's a damn good fight regardless oh who you think will win! I haven't been this excited about a fight in a loooooong time.
 
I could see Tony slipping in a submission, but he's not dishing out more punishment off his back than what he'll be receiving if Khabib gets on top of him.

Tony is also known for this and has stated that this is what he wants to do in the fight. So it's not even some secret that Khabib might not be ready for.
 
Pancake Sprawl said:
you can because everyone gets tired. it's easier for HWs to get tired because they're bigger and the other person doing it to them is bigger, but no matter how good Khabib's cardio is, if he cannot rest when he needs to rest he will get tired. pacing and breathing are a big reason why people who don't gas don't gas. if Tony can interrupt either of those things he has a chance to gas Khabib.

scrambles will gas Khabib just like it will gas any other human being. fighting back will also stop Khabib from doing as much damage as he does to everyone else, because he'll be busy trying to secure position and scrambling to punch.

i'm not saying Khabib doesn't have good cardio, i'm saying that no matter how much cardio you have ANY human being will get tired if you make them work harder than they're used to. that's just how it works.
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So how does this not apply to Tony too? Because he will be on the bottom, scrambling, working, defending, while not really attacking because if he does, he’ll most likely lost position. So, he’s going to be defending the whole time and working harder to do so than he ever has because he has never faced someone like this either. He’ll be carrying all of Khabib’s weight. He will tire and break earlier than Khabib will. Both are amazing fighters, but I think Khabib is on another level in comparison to just about anybody in MMA p4p. Nobody imposes their game plan more than he does. No fight is never how he wants it to be. The only other fighters I can think of in the last decade like this are GSP, Jonny Boy, and probably Ben Askren (yes I know you guys he’s overrated sucks never been in UFC ducked etcetcetc)

Only 2 weeks until we find out.
 
spannered said:
I somewhat agree with everything you're saying, except RDA didn't get particularly tired against Ferg. He was getting battered and hurt. Plus the weight cut nearly shut his kidneys down.

Also, you're comparing Khabib to BJ in terms of mental fortitude? C'mon man. One has been a lifelong martial artist who doesn't drink, party and never stops training (when he's not injured), the other a guy who barely trained and partied a lot.

Also, Khabib had enormous trouble getting Tibau yo the mat about 5 years ago, but he never quit pressuring him.

Anyway, it's OK to have different opinions about things, but there is literally no reason to suggest that A) he won't be able to get Tony down, and B) he's been the most endurable fighter we've seen of late in three rounders. He could have easily taken another two round's after thrashing Barboza IMO.

Maybe I'm wrong and Tony works out a way to avoid punishment on the mat and threaten Khabib, but man, would I be shocked. This is a guy who literally wrestled bears as a child and was doing sambo before puberty.

Tony has been in trouble many times in fights against mid-tier guys, and that happens when you have a crazy style like his, but Khabib has such strong grappling fundamentals, I just can't see Tony being able to drag him into deep waters with getting exhausted from punishment and pressure first.

Hey, it's a damn good fight regardless oh who you think will win! I haven't been this excited about a fight in a loooooong time.
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Good post bud
 
Pakman said:
Good post bud
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Likewise. It's good having logical debates with Sherdoggers who don't resort to childish name calling and completely subjective arguments due to fighter bias.

We both made some good points.
 
spannered said:
Likewise. It's good having logical debates with Sherdoggers who don't resort to childish name calling and completely subjective arguments due to fighter bias.

We both made some good points.
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Nah i call people idiots all the time, but usually just conor nuthuggers or people who bash the greats. I don’t care if people like 1 more than the other etcetc, but the people who say they’re can crushers make my blood boil.
 
spannered said:
RDA never gets tired. Remember the Pettis fight?

Plus, it's no coincidence that most of Khabib's opponents gas when they usually have phenomenal cardio: you work much, much more trying to get up as opposed to keeping someone down. Coupled with the constant damage they take, it drains your tank HARD.

Maybe Tony can do something different, but he'd be the first to out-cardio Khabib.
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RDA was injured in khabib fight and didnt have nick as his S&C coach and was 3 rounds. I take zero away from that fight

Tony will out cardio Khabib. Body types should tell you that plus Khabib look gassed and frustrated by rd 3 every time. Tony looks fresh after 5 in Mexico city

Khabib could win tho. Break his arm or lay and pray.
 
12ga. said:
RDA was injured in khabib fight and didnt have nick as his S&C coach and was 3 rounds. I take zero away from that fight

Tony will out cardio Khabib. Body types should tell you that plus Khabib look gassed and frustrated by rd 3 every time.

Khabib could win tho. Break his arm or lay and pray.
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Might have to disagree here...in what fights has Khabib been gassed in the third?

Bear in mind he expends VERY little energy when he's on top. He uses small movements like wrist and leg control to take out his opponents base, and they have then expended all their energy trying to get his weight off them. He throws a lot of GnP, which is taxing, but the guy wearing the punishment is gassing harder. Head trauma wears you out.

But yeah, I agree, Tony has the more cardio friendly style. I just don't think it will mean much if he's burning his tank and wearing heavy punishment early.

It's going to be a crazy fight. I can't wait.
 
I just don't think getting cut is going to bother Khabib. It might just make him go Berserk.
 
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