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Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by abhi, May 11, 2006.
Just wondering ?
No grappling, but definitely crappling.
Kempo half guard:
I would post the video I got these from but I'm afraid it's too much for you to handle.
looks pretty rough..
what's that leg lock accomplishing? It's not locking any joints/ligaments as far as I can tell.
NONE. Zero. Nada. Zilch.
However you will see that the post-UFC revolution (reality check) they all seem to be finding the 'hidden' grappling moves in thier katas. Which we all know is horseshit.
Kempo is so powerful that all you have to do is fall back and hug the leg. At least that's what I got from the video, since he does it a couple times.
funny story, but i used to work with this guy who was a 'master' in kenpo. totally OT, but i might entertain a few.
anyway, the guy had classic SPS (small penis syndrome). he drove a lifted truck, was short, had 2 pitbulls, lived with his parents.. dude was 36 and married. (ps- his wife gained tons of weight once married lol). anyway, me and him would have tension all the time.. he was a doorman, i was valet.. so hed try to shit on me, and i wouldnt have it. a lot of us valet boys have been training BJJ for years, so once he caught wind of that, he felt even more threatened.
then one day when we were going back and forth verbally, he said 'if you try to submission me, ill just poke out your eyes or fish hook you.' and i just said 'of course you would.' and his response was, 'its the street man anything is allowed.' then i said 'if it ever happens, write your knees a loveletter because theyll be gone forever.' haha, still to this day i dream of going into his gym with a video camera... setting it up... then challenging the guy and posting it on youtube.
nothing against kenpo, but this is my only person experience with it... a guy who is on a classic powertrip thinking kenpo dominates all.
lol...now that's a classic quote.
It depends on the form of Kenpo you're talking about. I learned Japanese Kenpo Jujitsu, but you don't learn a significant amount of Graapling till you're a brown belt, and from then on it's alot of joint lock, chokes, etc.
haha its true man... i wouldnt ever resort to knee locks/heel hooks in the street unless i was outnumbered, getting beaten down, or the guy tried to fishhook, bite, poke my eyes out, nut shot, etc. my personal morals wouldn't wish to tear anyones knee off unless they truly deserved it... which is a hard thing to come by. just as i wouldnt wish for anyone to lose and eye.
kenpo guys - was it just this guy, or does kenpo encourage a lot of dirty moves?
Actually I've trained in Okinawan Kenpo a decent amount (I have a shodan in it). A lot of the moves in the kata are grappling in the sense that it involves grabbing and off balancing your opponent. There's no real ground work in the BJJ sense, but there is plenty of throwing and joint locks.
I had the opportunity once to train with the headmaster from Okinawa. He was ridiculously short, like less than five feet tall. He was really old too with a Helio look to him. He didn't really speak English, so most of his instruction was just doing the katas and us trying to figure out his particular details.
Since I've never really liked kata myself much because I think it's difficult to imagine what is really going on, I was glad to see that he decided to demonstrate some of the real applications of the kata moves. He showed a few, and they were all grappling techniques. Again not like BJJ, but stuff you might see from a TJJ system. Standing wristlocks, finger locks. joint throws, etc. Not really intended for a full blown fight, but pretty useful for controlling or detaining uncooperative people.
Ghost Dog: Kenpo does encourage a lot of dirty stuff for self-defense. I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. If your life is threatened for real, you should not feel bad about attacking the groin, gouging eyes, etc. The only problem is when people start relying on that stuff and thinking that it is somehow going to magically counter BJJ. As someone who trains BJJ, I know when I can and cannot be eye gouged. In most grappling situations you get into, your opponent is going to have a really hard time getting off a cheap move if you are any good at BJJ.
Your supposed to tickle him into submission
there are a few schools in san diego that are kenpo schools but they also use "small circle" jiu jitsu as part of thier system, wally jay is the founder of that i think
most forms of karate encourage dirty moves
READ: I spent too long in 'Okinawan Kenpo' and have trouble letting go of its absolute uselessness. Therefore any movement within that kata we extrapolate 'hidden' in an attempt to justify ourselves.
Do kata - figure out particular details. READ: Find some justification for the outdated and archaic training tool.
I think the grappling there is more "wishful thinking". I've also seen a video of some TKD guys doing judo which looked as "wishful". I guess if yo wanna learn grappling - dont take Kenpo Karate [/obvious]
ed parker's american kempo karate,
you can pretty much say zero as in grappling like MMA or BJJ type.
they have throws, chokes, take downs, arm locks, joint locks, on paper it may all
sound the same, but when you train there, you will see even the ones that
try to do more grappling, it's still pretty different.
Stoic man, I've trained in the martial arts for 16 years. I've trained in Karate, Muay Thai, Jun Fan/JKD Concepts, Kali, Combat Submission Wrestling, and BJJ. And those are just the official ones that I spent a significant amount of time in. I've sparred or trained with someone from just about every other martial art you could think of.
What I learned from all that is that no martial art is absolutely useless. I've learned at least something useful from every single person that I have trained with. I'll be the first to say that overall I think BJJ is more useful than Okinawan Kenpo, but to call it absolutely useless is pretty dumb. I still use some of the stuff to this day.
If you take the attitude that a martial art is completely worthless and don't even try to find any good in it, you're no better than the TMA guy who says "BJJ sucks because going to the ground in the street is dangerous." He clings to the partial truth of his argument (I generally strike and throw instead of ground grappling in the few times I've been in real situations), but fails to grasp the greater truth that training in BJJ is absolutely essential to being a well-rounded martial artist.
I'm against the TMA mentality wherever I find it. Sometimes it's from a small penis Kenpo guy who thinks the eye gouge is going to stop your grappling. And sometimes it's from a BJJ guy who thinks Kenpo is just completely worthless crap, no matter how you train it.