how much grappling in Kenpo karate

[Edog30]

kenpo guys - was it just this guy, or does kenpo encourage a lot of dirty moves?

Its the style, yes, if it works...use it.
however, this guy sounds like a prick.

 

[Alzi_]

Street Lethal Kenpo Karate vs. BJJ: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naWEbPDz80w&search=royler

 

[bayboy4life]

NONE. Zero. Nada. Zilch.

However you will see that the post-UFC revolution (reality check) they all seem to be finding the 'hidden' grappling moves in thier katas. Which we all know is horseshit.

I know I was thinking of that the other day.They where never hidden they just do want to lose all there mcdojo clients to stuff that really works.And is there even a such thing as grappling kata?????WTF

 

[Balto]

And is there even a such thing as grappling kata?????WTF

There are plenty of grappling katas. Here is a large list from judo: http://www.judoinfo.com/katamenu.htm

In particular, check out katame no kata. I also know that Erik Paulson's CSW has several submission katas (they are called lockflows, but it is the same thing).

 

[VampireMonk]

grappling kata? like what Rickson did on the beach in CHOKE?

 

[abhi]

Street Lethal Kenpo Karate vs. BJJ: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naWEbPDz80w&search=royler

I love the WHAT? at the end

 

[azjudoboxer**]

That guy didt look to be a master of anything

 

[devante]

all the kenpo guys i trained w/had some familiarity w/ grappling; none of them trained grappling, but had def or counter grappling moves w/in their art and made it a point to work w/grapplers to fully develop the technique in a non static environment.

an while i am no top notch grrappler by any means i have been able to hold my own (and beat in some cases) wrestlers/bjj types/judo/jkd grapplers/ etc; an the guys i did mma type sparring w/were alot better than i thought.

going in i figured i would just have my way with them in clinches, but i got taken down from the clinch a couple'a times, they struck and worked well on the inside/clinch. While i am not the best sub guy, they did def them quite well, same w/the takedowns.

were they great NOPE, but were they informed and functional on the ground/clinch; yes, they were def skilled enough to eff get off their offense eff against someone w/a much better grappling background/history.

 

[Q mystic]

When I was bluebelt in judo a Kenpo instructor had me come over for some 'crosstraining' as he said they might have tech that might help in judo. I would not have defined it as grappling. Not saying they aren't tuff just the club I went to didn't grapple. More like 'moves'. No mats.

 

[Nightmare86]

i know a guy that does kempo, he says that an armbar is an advanced move lol

 

[azjudoboxer**]

It is in Kenpo, I learned lots of strking 1st, then moved into locks, chokes, and throws. IMO Kajukenbo is better tough than kenpo

 

[DirectDrive]

kenpo guys - was it just this guy, or does kenpo encourage a lot of dirty moves?

a lot of TMA's put emphasis on dirty moves. everything they teach is based around self defense, so the dirty moves are geared towards an 'attacker' or rapist, so the dirty moves and use of TMA dealy force are justified. on the same token the TMA will never be used against a non-attacker, since the use of such lethal force wouldn't be justified. conveniently this keeps them out of any real fights.

 

[Aesopian]

An emphasis on dirty moves is a sign that the rest of the system is fundamentally flawed. Just skipping to "last resorts" gimmicks without a functional base is suicide.

 

[The Jake]

I agree every style has something to offer but the amount of useless shite in some styles is insane. The number of people that talk to me about Wing Chun being awesome just makes me want to smash them in the face, tear their arm off with a kimura and club a clue into them with the bloody stump. I get really angry people talking about WC.

I agree with Aesopian - the reason BJJ eliminated a lot of these instant death/dirty tactic moves is that there is no way to drill those moves in class without maiming someone. If you cannot drill the move effectively how can you know it will work well or that you can even pull it off in a fight? Short answer: you can't.

- J.

 

[SleepingTalon]

I agree every style has something to offer but the amount of useless shite in some styles is insane. The number of people that talk to me about Wing Chun being awesome just makes me want to smash them in the face, tear their arm off with a kimura and club a clue into them with the bloody stump. I get really angry people talking about WC.

I agree with Aesopian - the reason BJJ eliminated a lot of these instant death/dirty tactic moves is that there is no way to drill those moves in class without maiming someone. If you cannot drill the move effectively how can you know it will work well or that you can even pull it off in a fight? Short answer: you can't.

- J.

It's funny you say that because I had a confrontation with some WC pick the other day who was totally discrediting my MMA training. He was like "Whose your trainer?" and I replied "Paul Creighton" So he gave me this "who the fuck is that guy" kinda smirk, which I thought was really funny because in my area, there are very few guys that can say they fought in the UFC, and even fewer people who can say that they fought BJ Penn, BOTH of which Paul did. Anyway, I figure that someone who keeps up with people in their area would know some of these little facts, but that really wasn't what bothered/suprised me. It's when he asked "Well who trained him?" in some cocky manner, and I replied "Renzo Gracie" and he responds with a "Pfffh, Renzo" like Renzo's a fucking chumpstain. I thought it was totally disrespectful. I never come across like an asshole about what other people train in. I mean, if it's what you enjoy, and it makes you feel better, then go for it, but this guy was talking down to me like no other, and just disrespecting Renzo and Paul. Still, I didn't feel like stooping to his level and letting him know some hard truth about WC. In retrospect, I should've just invited him over to our gym and given him a nice "demo" LOL. I really hate some of these stupid fucksticks.

 

[azjudoboxer**]

I agree every style has something to offer but the amount of useless shite in some styles is insane. The number of people that talk to me about Wing Chun being awesome just makes me want to smash them in the face, tear their arm off with a kimura and club a clue into them with the bloody stump. I get really angry people talking about WC.

I agree with Aesopian - the reason BJJ eliminated a lot of these instant death/dirty tactic moves is that there is no way to drill those moves in class without maiming someone. If you cannot drill the move effectively how can you know it will work well or that you can even pull it off in a fight? Short answer: you can't.

- J.

That was part of the revolution of Judo, only practicing and learning moves you can train realistically in class, so they become 2nd nature

 

[Tom Hishon]

Actually in Shorin-ryu and Isshin-ryu, which are both closely related there are about 5 throws and 6 joint locks adn the RNC. Seriously man. Check them out. Most schools don't focus on them though as you have someone teaching you how to fight without actaully hitting anyone and never having been in a fight themselves they are not sure how they work. Hense the problem with TMA

 

[Sami Ibrahim]

Just wondering ?

Ed Parker started his Martial Arts training with Judo at age 12, earning a black belt in it at age 18. (Not unlike Helio Gracie). He also trained in Western Boxing because his father was a boxing commissioner in Hawaii. He took up Kenpo after that under William Chow who himself had cross trained in Danzan Ryu Jujutsu (offshoot of Yoshin-Ryu Jujutsu). Many of William Chow's techniques which were incorporated into Ed Parker's Kenpo System are actually counters to techniques from Danzan Ryu Jujutsu but because this fact is overlooked these Jujutsu attacks are poorly understood and often a Kenpo practitioner works a counter against the most silly grappling attempts.

When Ed Parker laid out the format for his new system, he divided the basics of his new system to include a category called "Specialized Moves and Methods" which he further broke down into many subdivisions of grappling components but the average, paying customers did not spend time developing the grappling component (this was before the era of the Gracie family) many instructors just did not teach their students the Specialized category unless they were cops who needed it. So to answer your question does Kenpo have grappling in it? Yes, it does, it has grappling techniques from the various Chinese Chin Na methods and from Judo and Jujutsu but they are often ignored or down-played in importance, with some instructors stating that if you tie yourself up with one opponent too long his friends will get you. After the Gracie family raised the interest in grappling for the common martial arts customer more Kenpo instructors reached back into the grappling that had indeed always been there and started to emphasize it more. They are getting better at it but are still behind the power curve when compared to martial arts that specialize in grappling like Combat Sambo or BJJ.

That being said the Ed Parker System of Kenpo has a unique approach to grappling, it is blended in with the striking combinations and instead of locking a joint, the joint is destroyed while flowing through a combination which emphasizes striking, instead of a take down, they have a variation called a strike-down that hits the attacker in a manner that knocks them down, when dropped they try to kick and sweep their way back to their feet or attack the lower half with strikes like elbow strikes to the inside of the opponents legs or smash the testicles, if standing they try to stomp, kick and knee drop on the fallen enemy and they have numerous neck breaks for standing and fallen enemies. Also we have a grappling methods build into our weapons work (staff, Clubs, Knives, Nunchukas, etc) The stuff you see where the Kenpo guy is putting someone in the guard of defending the guard or getting into the mount etc is all stuff stolen from BJJ after that fact but Ed Parker's System could be called "the thieving art of Kenpo" because we steal anything we like and assimilate it.

 

[bjjaz]

Ed Parker started his Martial Arts training with Judo at age 12, earning a black belt in it at age 18. (Not unlike Helio Gracie). He also trained in Western Boxing because his father was a boxing commissioner in Hawaii. He took up Kenpo after that under William Chow who himself had cross trained in Danzan Ryu Jujutsu (offshoot of Yoshin-Ryu Jujutsu). Many of William Chow's techniques which were incorporated into Ed Parker's Kenpo System are actually counters to techniques from Danzan Ryu Jujutsu but because this fact is overlooked these Jujutsu attacks are poorly understood and often a Kenpo practitioner works a counter against the most silly grappling attempts.

When Ed Parker laid out the format for his new system, he divided the basics of his new system to include a category called "Specialized Moves and Methods" which he further broke down into many subdivisions of grappling components but the average, paying customers did not spend time developing the grappling component (this was before the era of the Gracie family) many instructors just did not teach their students the Specialized category unless they were cops who needed it. So to answer your question does Kenpo have grappling in it? Yes, it does, it has grappling techniques from the various Chinese Chin Na methods and from Judo and Jujutsu but they are often ignored or down-played in importance, with some instructors stating that if you tie yourself up with one opponent too long his friends will get you. After the Gracie family raised the interest in grappling for the common martial arts customer more Kenpo instructors reached back into the grappling that had indeed always been there and started to emphasize it more. They are getting better at it but are still behind the power curve when compared to martial arts that specialize in grappling like Combat Sambo or BJJ.

That being said the Ed Parker System of Kenpo has a unique approach to grappling, it is blended in with the striking combinations and instead of locking a joint, the joint is destroyed while flowing through a combination which emphasizes striking, instead of a take down, they have a variation called a strike-down that hits the attacker in a manner that knocks them down, when dropped they try to kick and sweep their way back to their feet or attack the lower half with strikes like elbow strikes to the inside of the opponents legs or smash the testicles, if standing they try to stomp, kick and knee drop on the fallen enemy and they have numerous neck breaks for standing and fallen enemies. Also we have a grappling methods build into our weapons work (staff, Clubs, Knives, Nunchukas, etc) The stuff you see where the Kenpo guy is putting someone in the guard of defending the guard or getting into the mount etc is all stuff stolen from BJJ after that fact but Ed Parker's System could be called "the thieving art of Kenpo" because we steal anything we like and assimilate it.

You realize this thread is from 2006?

 

[Rico]

Ed Parker started his Martial Arts training with Judo at age 12, earning a black belt in it at age 18. (Not unlike Helio Gracie). He also trained in Western Boxing because his father was a boxing commissioner in Hawaii. He took up Kenpo after that under William Chow who himself had cross trained in Danzan Ryu Jujutsu (offshoot of Yoshin-Ryu Jujutsu). Many of William Chow's techniques which were incorporated into Ed Parker's Kenpo System are actually counters to techniques from Danzan Ryu Jujutsu but because this fact is overlooked these Jujutsu attacks are poorly understood and often a Kenpo practitioner works a counter against the most silly grappling attempts.

When Ed Parker laid out the format for his new system, he divided the basics of his new system to include a category called "Specialized Moves and Methods" which he further broke down into many subdivisions of grappling components but the average, paying customers did not spend time developing the grappling component (this was before the era of the Gracie family) many instructors just did not teach their students the Specialized category unless they were cops who needed it. So to answer your question does Kenpo have grappling in it? Yes, it does, it has grappling techniques from the various Chinese Chin Na methods and from Judo and Jujutsu but they are often ignored or down-played in importance, with some instructors stating that if you tie yourself up with one opponent too long his friends will get you. After the Gracie family raised the interest in grappling for the common martial arts customer more Kenpo instructors reached back into the grappling that had indeed always been there and started to emphasize it more. They are getting better at it but are still behind the power curve when compared to martial arts that specialize in grappling like Combat Sambo or BJJ.

That being said the Ed Parker System of Kenpo has a unique approach to grappling, it is blended in with the striking combinations and instead of locking a joint, the joint is destroyed while flowing through a combination which emphasizes striking, instead of a take down, they have a variation called a strike-down that hits the attacker in a manner that knocks them down, when dropped they try to kick and sweep their way back to their feet or attack the lower half with strikes like elbow strikes to the inside of the opponents legs or smash the testicles, if standing they try to stomp, kick and knee drop on the fallen enemy and they have numerous neck breaks for standing and fallen enemies. Also we have a grappling methods build into our weapons work (staff, Clubs, Knives, Nunchukas, etc) The stuff you see where the Kenpo guy is putting someone in the guard of defending the guard or getting into the mount etc is all stuff stolen from BJJ after that fact but Ed Parker's System could be called "the thieving art of Kenpo" because we steal anything we like and assimilate it.

Hi Ed!