How many wins would max need to pass khabib?

[markg171]

In terms of UFC career, Max has done more as champion, beaten more ranked opponents and also looked dominant like Khabib for many years before losing to Volk.

You could say p4p that Max's career is more impressive than Khabib's. Khabib's biggest claim is his undefeated record.

But someone like Max could have also gone 17-0 against cans before coming to the UFC, and also a much more deceiving record.

And who's to say if Khabib would have remained undefeated if he did as much as Max did as champion, Khabib dominated a lot but also showed weaknesses in his game during his UFC run, he was 100% beatable.

Comparisons will always be subjective though.

Every single time Khabib fans point to how he "dominated everybody" and that's their entire argument to justify his smaller record they always have to ignore that plenty of other fighters did the same and only "stopped" precisely because they did it longer than Khabib and so eventually ran into trouble.

This very thread is completely ignoring how flawless Max looked in his fights like Ortega or Kattar. Like wow, you're telling me we need to put Max lower because he struggled against Volk in his 6th title fight. Remind me again when Khabib hit 6 title fights?

It's easy to have a "perfect" record when you quit early. Sticking around is the hard part.

 

[RockyLockridge]

It's not just the "never lost" aspect, it's the pure dominance, the dude took zero damage and barely lost rounds (lost 1 or 2 close rounds max). Shavkhat also has a perfect record and has finished every opponent unlike Khabib, but he's still taken WAY more damage in the Geoff Neal fight alone than Khabib took in his entire career. What khabib accomplished in terms of dominance (in the toughest division) is damn near impossible.

What a load of crap, literally all of it.

Yes the RDA win was great I’ll never take that away, but he lost a round to Conor and Gaethje also tibau. Khabib did not fight all the best fighters of his era. Someone like cerrone has actually fought all the best lws of his era and he has losses.

Think about it khabib in the ufc since 2011-2021, has never fought

Ferguson
cerrone
Alverez
Benson
Pettis
Diaz
Melendez
Thompson (teammate, so understandable)

He just weaved through all the best lws of his era except RDA of course. To say he dominated lw, like he dominated ALL of it, is just dishonest. Pettis and benson, for example have fought everyone more or less on this list including RDA. (Benson never fought Tony, pettis never fought Thompson)

I’m not going to pretend I wouldn’t favour khabib in all of those match ups, but they never happened he didn’t fight the best lws available until his last few fights. And I do not count Conor or iaquinta, his good wins are Gaethje, Porier and RDA.

That’s it.

 

[moosaev]

What a load of crap, literally all of it.

Yes the RDA win was great I’ll never take that away, but he lost a round to Conor and Gaethje also tibau. Khabib did not fight all the best fighters of his era. Someone like cerrone has actually fought all the best lws of his era and he has losses.

Think about it khabib in the ufc since 2011-2021, has never fought

Ferguson
cerrone
Alverez
Benson
Pettis
Diaz
Melendez
Thompson (teammate, so understandable)

He just weaved through all the best lws of his era except RDA of course. To say he dominated lw, like he dominated ALL of it, is just dishonest. Pettis and benson, for example have fought everyone more or less on this list including RDA. (Benson never fought Tony, pettis never fought Thompson)

I’m not going to pretend I wouldn’t favour khabib in all of those match ups, but they never happened he didn’t fight the best lws available until his last few fights. And I do not count Conor or iaquinta, his good wins are Gaethje, Porier and RDA.

That’s it.

You guys hate Khabib so much that you wanna re-write history lmaooo. Tibau didn't win a single round. Also, Khabib's dominance isn't an opinion, it's a fact. No champ has ever been as dominant as Khabib in terms of how many one sided fights they have, ever. You can cry all you want, but thats a FACT not an opinion.

 

[RockyLockridge]

You guys hate Khabib so much that you wanna re-write history lmaooo. Tibau didn't win a single round. Also, Khabib's dominance isn't an opinion, it's a fact. No champ has ever been as dominant as Khabib in terms of how many one sided fights they have, ever. You can cry all you want, but thats a FACT not an opinion.

GSP won 33 straigh rounds on all judges scorecards, All in title fights. So yes Your "fact" is easily disputed.

GSP was much more dominant, for a much longer time, against much better opposition than khabib. And in a much more well rounded affair that would have him dominate grapplers in grappling and strikers in striking.


I have nothing at all against khabib, I've rooted for him his entire career. but I'm pragmatic, and realistic. I never thought he was much of the goat of anything. I will always tell people like you, If chris weidman retied after vitor, he'd have been undefeated with 3 title defenses just like khabib. Would he have been a goat candidate too? Never lost a round to anyone at all his whole career at this point (unless he dropped just one to machida?) and beat anderson silva twice.

the answer is no, no he would not. Khabib gets speacial treatment. so much so that YOU want to re-write history. That's what his fans do, re-frame history on khabib's behalf.

Khabib was dominant. But he did not do enough to claim being a goat candidate. fighters like mighty mouse, GSP, Anderson silva have more Top 5 wins than khabib has ufc fights.

 

[moosaev]

Every single time Khabib fans point to how he "dominated everybody" and that's their entire argument to justify his smaller record they always have to ignore that plenty of other fighters did the same and only "stopped" precisely because they did it longer than Khabib and so eventually ran into trouble.

This very thread is completely ignoring how flawless Max looked in his fights like Ortega or Kattar. Like wow, you're telling me we need to put Max lower because he struggled against Volk in his 6th title fight. Remind me again when Khabib hit 6 title fights?

It's easy to have a "perfect" record when you quit early. Sticking around is the hard part.

Buddy, JBJ almost lost to Gustafson at his absolute peak. He looked like a bloody mess at the end of that fight. He was 26 years old and was at the absolute peak of his powers, so don't give me the "eventually it happens to everyone" argument. Jones wasn't dominating every second of every fight. He was also in bad trouble against Vitor. And if you're gonna say Vitor was juicing, so was Tibau.

 

[moosaev]

GSP won 33 straigh rounds on all judges scorecards, All in title fights. So yes Your "fact" is easily disputed.

GSP was much more dominant, for a much longer time, against much better opposition than khabib. And in a much more well rounded affair that would have him dominate grapplers in grappling and strikers in striking.

GSP got knocked out by a part time security guard (Matt Serra). Discussion over lol.

 

[RockyLockridge]

GSP got knocked out by a part time security guard (Matt Serra). Discussion over lol.

If that's your argument it's incredibly weak.

I'll accept it as an admission of defeat.

 

[moosaev]

If that's your argument it's incredibly weak.

I'll accept it as an admission of defeat.

Buddy you're the one arguing that a guy who got KO'd by a journeyman was more dominant than an undefeated champion. I'd be embarassed to make that argument, but you do you lol.

 

[markg171]

Buddy, JBJ almost lost to Gustafson at his absolute peak. He looked like a bloody mess at the end of that fight. He was 26 years old and was at the absolute peak of his powers, so don't give me the "eventually it happens to everyone" argument. Jones wasn't dominating every second of every fight. He was also in bad trouble against Vitor. And if you're gonna say Vitor was juicing, so was Tibau.

Gus was Jon's 7th title fight and 14th UFC fight. Remind me again when Khabib did either of those things? He only had 4 title fights and 13 fights overall.

Thanks for perfectly proving my point though.

 

[Wicked_1]

Is it just about title wins? What if you’re fighting the exact same people the champion of your division is fighting? Kattar probably would have fought for the title if he had beat Max. Are the stakes lower cause it’s a title shot instead of a title? Is kattar fighting worse becuase he isn’t getting a belt if he wins?

I will say it's not just about wins. It's also about losses. It's also about how the fights went. Max is great, but always shows when he has fought. His strength is cardio and toughness. He has advantages over guys like Aldo, since he is so long and lanky. In the end max can not pass Khabib simply because he has lost 7 tines. Khabib not only never lost, but as stated only lost 2 rounds ever, which were easily rounds ge could have won. The only hard fight or fight that looked hard for him was the Tib fight. I do not believe he lost the fight or even lost a single round in it, but it was the only one he ever looked like he was even human. He never had a scratch basically. That's why max can't catch him.

 

[markg171]

I will say it's not just about wins. It's also about losses. It's also about how the fights went. Max is great, but always shows when he has fought. His strength is cardio and toughness. He has advantages over guys like Aldo, since he is so long and lanky. In the end max can not pass Khabib simply because he has lost 7 tines. Khabib not only never lost, but as stated only lost 2 rounds ever, which were easily rounds ge could have won. The only hard fight or fight that looked hard for him was the Tib fight. I do not believe he lost the fight or even lost a single round in it, but it was the only one he ever looked like he was even human. He never had a scratch basically. That's why max can't catch him.

Yes, everybody watched fights like Ortega or Kattar and came away thinking they were on Max's level.

 

[RonDante]

Not possible. Khabib would have beat Max 100 times in 100 fights.

Anybody who has watched them fight would realize this and not try to MMA math some scheme to claim one was better than the other. Anybody with 2 eyes and an honest mind knows this.

I like Max and have always enjoyed his fights - even, moreso, his character and the way he lives his life. But let's stop trying to make some dramatic leap to him potentially being better than Khabib.

Okay but it’s not a head to head question and it’s not who’s better as a fighter its who is greater in terms of legacy

 

[moosaev]

Gus was Jon's 7th title fight and 14th UFC fight. Remind me again when Khabib did either of those things? He only had 4 title fights and 13 fights overall.

Thanks for perfectly proving my point though.

Jones got a title opportunity how soon into his career? The entire comparison is stupid because their career arcs are different and khabib didn't get a TS when he was 23. All we can do is compare their performances at their physical & skill peaks. Khabib never took damage at his peak, JBJ was bloodied and battered and almost lost at his physical & skill peak (Gus, and arguably Vitor).

 

[RockyLockridge]

Jones got a title opportunity how soon into his career?

again, Khabib fans with the revisionist history.

Jones got his title fight in his 8th ufc fight. Khabib in his 10th.

You just think Jones got a fast track because jones would fight multiple times a year and not take years off like khabib. khabib getting a title shot took as long as it did because he had problems staying healthy. It's a complete false equivalent that jones got a title fight in less years, because the amount of fights was very similar, and when jones earned a title fight he beat an undefeated fighter in bader.


Try again.

 

[maximus__]

This is NOT a khabib hate thread, I know how great he is, it’s just something to think about
this is partly subjective, as it just sort of comes down to how notable a win I think it is, so some wins are counted and others aren’t

NOTABLE is the key word, but SUBJECTIVE and POTENTIALLY BIASED are too

Khabib title fight wins
-Iaquinta
-Mcgregor
-Poirier
-Gaethje

Khabib 3 rounder wins
-RDA
-Johnson
-Barboza



Max Holloway title fight wins
-Pettis
-Aldo
-Aldo again
-Ortega
-Edgar

max non title fight 5 rounder wins
-Oliveira
-kattar
-yair
-allen
-tkz (quite a weak win to be honest)

max 3 rounder wins
-swanson
-stephens
-lamas



obviously, Khabib never lost, and only lost two rounds in his career, while max has 7 losses. However, when you look at who max lost to, it’s not the worst. He had 3 losses early in his career to poirier, Bermudez and mcgregor. Then he goes on his win streak, loses to poirier up a weight division. His other 3 losses are all to the same guy, which some may see as a bad style matchup, or volk just being that good (the greatest featherweight of all time in a lot of peoples eye, certainly the best)

so, how many more wins would holloway need to pass khabib? Does he have to become champion again in your eyes? Does picking off top ten guys for the next few years of the volk reign do enough? How about his upcoming fight against gaethje?

NOT a khabib hate thread, just a thought experiment

Khabib may have been one of the best to ever do it, but he really only fought 6 ranked guys and has 3 defences.What he has going for him is domiance in his wins.
Max is top 3 at FW, has a total resume that craps all over Khabibs, but has some losses.

All you need to do is look at the first 20 or so of Khabibs wins to sort of be disappointed in his overall career. If we saw him fight through this current era he would have cemented himself as one of the best to do it though.

Max still beats most in his division and is stepping up to 155 to challenge himself which is something Khabib was never really willing to do at a high level.

Khabib will be thought of better and wins a head to head fight, but Khabib doesn't make it through his resume unscathed, just because MMA is what it is.

 

[RonDante]

There's no point in making dumb threads asking for an answer on something that is purely subjective.

Yeah let’s just never discuss anything

 

[ThePimblettEra]

He needs about 1000 more wins since Khabib's 3 title defences were so impressive and groundbreaking.

 

[kalabula]

This isn’t a hot take, but Khabibs strength of schedule is pretty bad.

 

[infinite666]

He can't pass Khabib. Max is up in age and has a different legacy. Very solid champion, very good legacy, but not in the same ballpark.

Khabib 3 title defense isn't much, but it's him running through guys

Like max wasnt dominating guys in his title run beat up aldo as first defense then beat the shit outta undefeated ortega and easily beat edgar

 

[markg171]

Jones got a title opportunity how soon into his career? The entire comparison is stupid because their career arcs are different and khabib didn't get a TS when he was 23. All we can do is compare their performances at their physical & skill peaks. Khabib never took damage at his peak, JBJ was bloodied and battered and almost lost at his physical & skill peak (Gus, and arguably Vitor).

If Khabib got a title shot at 23 he wouldn't be undefeated.