How good kicker was mas oyama?

[Frode Falch]

Kyokusin is a strong kicking style. But looking at pictures and video of the founder. He dont have a kickers body type.

He look like a solid thick strongman kinda body type. I would expect a guy with that build to have strong punches, grip, and balance.

But where did all the kicks come from?

 

[Hotora86]

Kyokusin is a strong kicking style. But looking at pictures and video of the founder. He dont have a kickers body type.

He look like a solid thick strongman kinda body type. I would expect a guy with that build to have strong punches, grip, and balance.

But where did all the kicks come from?

Most KKK guys I've met don't have "a kickers body type". I've also met tall, lanky Judoka (arguably a "wrong" body type). But with training you can overcome limitations and find the techniques that work best for you. I relied on ashi waza in Judo since I am that "wrong" lanky type.

As for Oyama, as far as I know his Karate style was influenced by Muay Thai where everyone kicks hard as fuck irrespective of body type.

I'm sure @shinkyoku and @Azam can tell you more.

 

[Azam]

From what I know he wasn't a particular powerful or great kicker by others accounts.

He was on the other hand and extremely powerful puncher with extremely strong hands. I imagine it probably extremely painful to be punched him. He was after all famed for how hard he hit.



Early kyokushin from what I know was almost identical to Japanese Goju ryu. Mas Oyama while not being the best kicker obviously knew how to teach people to kick.

A lot of his early students before the Muay Thai influence were well renowned for their kicking ability - Terutomo, Soeno, Sato, Royama were all excellent kickers.

You don't necessarily have to be the best kicker to be able to teach people how to kick well. Just like not all good teachers are great fighters.

His students that were great kickers in turn taught others that turned into some of the best kickers I'd argue that have graced martial arts - like Midori, Matsui etc.

 

[spacetime]

Even though their free fighting rules suggest it, Kyokushin isn't really a kicking art. Hand techniques are still emphasized in basics

 

[Tayski]

Kyokusin is a strong kicking style. But looking at pictures and video of the founder. He dont have a kickers body type.

He look like a solid thick strongman kinda body type. I would expect a guy with that build to have strong punches, grip, and balance.

But where did all the kicks come from?

He was more known for his hard hands and punches than he was for his kicks that's for sure, but it's not all about the body type though.

The kicks from Kyokushin came from traditional karate, especially Goju Ryu and Shotokan Karate, and later adopted some kicks from Muay Thai too. Kicking was very much emphasised in Oyama's training of his students, as you can see in the many documentaries available on youtube of Mas Oyama talking to his students and training them. A lot of his students and uchi deshi would testify to this too.

Also, the knockdown ruleset of Kyokushin which developed and was emphasised more and more through the years made kicks even more important for knockdown competitors as you see a lot today.

As Azam said, you don't have to be the best at performing something in order to teach it, as long as you understand the mechanics and can explain how to do it and correct people's technique.

 

[Silver tongue samurai]

Most KKK guys I've met don't have "a kickers body type."

Interesting fact but i didnt take you for the kind of guy to keep that type of company

 

[Hotora86]

Interesting fact but i didnt take you for the kind of guy to keep that type of company

Kyokushin Kai/Kan Karate = KKK

But you're probably just pulling my leg.

 

[spacetime]

If I had started a thread speculating on a Karate founders kicking abilities based on physical appearence, I would be rightly labelled a retard and a troll. Funny how when Frode does it, there is no outcry.

Very fair and unpartisan message board...

 

[j123]

Stopped reading after this

If I had started a thread speculating on a Karate founders kicking abilities based on physical appearence, I would be rightly labelled a retard and a troll. Funny how when Frode does it, there is no outcry.

Very fair and unpartisan message board...

 

[William Huggins]

If I had started a thread speculating on a Karate founders kicking abilities based on physical appearence, I would be rightly labelled a retard and a troll. Funny how when Frode does it, there is no outcry.

Very fair and unpartisan message board...

Maybe if you spent time like Frode, adding value to the forum's then your threads would be taken more seriously...

I personally loved the thread, Frode did ( why did you delete it Frode!!) About gay bars across western Europe.

 

[Hotora86]

If I had started a thread speculating on a Karate founders kicking abilities based on physical appearence, I would be rightly labelled a retard and a troll. Funny how when Frode does it, there is no outcry.

Very fair and unpartisan message board...

 

[shinkyoku]

Kyokusin is a strong kicking style. But looking at pictures and video of the founder. He dont have a kickers body type.

He look like a solid thick strongman kinda body type. I would expect a guy with that build to have strong punches, grip, and balance.

But where did all the kicks come from?

Oyama was a decent kicker, but you are right that he primarily was a puncher.
Most pictures of Oyama are from him as an old man with some overweight. This was Oyama in (or close to) his prime.

Where the kicks came from? he had high grades in shotokan &Goju ryu -all of which have plenty of kicks, and he had dabbled in several other arts. Also, the early oyama karate jutsu dojo was a fighting dojo where members of several styles met and just did free kumite. The old masters didnt call kumite "exchanging wisdom" without a reason.

 

[AshiharaFan]

If I had started a thread speculating on a Karate founders kicking abilities based on physical appearence, I would be RIGHTLY labelled a retard and a troll.

Need I or anyone else say more?

 

[AshiharaFan]

And the feedback so far ITT is correct. Mas Oyama was known more for being a really hard puncher. Most people would attribute that to his physical build, which may have ALOT to do with it. Even so I would still personally surmise that it may also have to do with Goju Ryu and Shotokan Karate not being kick oriented styles along the lines of Kukkiwon TKD or Tang Soo Do or the sport of muay Thai. We can look at any typical Olympic TKD sparring match vs any typical Shotokan Karate point sparring match to ascertain that.

 

[ShadowoftheSun]

Frode is predominantly a constructive member of the forum and when he posts videos, they're actual sparring, instead of assaulting a poor innocent jacket.

 

[Azam]

And the feedback so far ITT is correct. Mas Oyama was known more for being a really hard puncher. Most people would attribute that to his physical build, which may have ALOT to do with it. Even so I would still personally surmise that it may also have to do with Goju Ryu and Shotokan Karate not being kick oriented styles along the lines of Kukkiwon TKD or Tang Soo Do or the sport of muay Thai. We can look at any typical Olympic TKD sparring match vs any typical Shotokan Karate point sparring match to ascertain that.

I concur as well.

Early karate styles weren't known for being very kick orientated styles - they were predominantly punching, grappling with some kicks thrown in.

I think it probably had more to do with the fact that at least as far as self defense goes you can use a larger repertoire of punching/grappling techniques than kicking techniques. I think that's why early karate styles probably mirrored that. From the footage I've seen of early karate it was predominantly kicks to the body/groin and the legs.

 

[spacetime]

[

I concur as well.

Early karate styles weren't known for being very kick orientated styles - they were predominantly punching, grappling with some kicks thrown in.

I think it probably had more to do with the fact that at least as far as self defense goes you can use a larger repertoire of punching/grappling techniques than kicking techniques. I think that's why early karate styles probably mirrored that. From the footage I've seen of early karate it was predominantly kicks to the body/groin and the legs.

Bollocks. Here's old Shotokan footage with founders, full of Kicks.

 

[AshiharaFan]

[


Bollocks. Here's old Shotokan footage with founders, full of Kicks.

Literally EVERYTHING about this post, from the obscure (and 100% impractical and unrealistic) goshin jitsu demonstrations in that video to your deceptive language by saying with founders (though I didn't see Gichin Funakoshi anywhere in the video) is exactly why no one on sherdog takes you seriously.

I'm not going to bother explaining why your post is both wrong AND irrelevant because you already knew it was before you posted it. I think everything you do is to get attention.

 

[spacetime]

Literally EVERYTHING about this post, from the obscure (and 100% impractical and unrealistic) goshin jitsu demonstrations in that video to your deceptive language by saying with founders (though I didn't see Gichin Funakoshi anywhere in the video) is exactly why no one on sherdog takes you seriously.

I'm not going to bother explaining why your post is both wrong AND irrelevant because you already knew it was before you posted it. I think everything you do is to get attention.

Nakayama founded the Japan Karate Association.

He is a pivotal figure in Shotokan.

 

[spacetime]

Mas Oyama fighting!