How good kicker was mas oyama?

[Azam]

Literally EVERYTHING about this post, from the obscure (and 100% impractical and unrealistic) goshin jitsu demonstrations in that video to your deceptive language by saying with founders (though I didn't see Gichin Funakoshi anywhere in the video) is exactly why no one on sherdog takes you seriously.

I'm not going to bother explaining why your post is both wrong AND irrelevant because you already knew it was before you posted it. I think everything you do is to get attention.

I noticed Nakayama and Nishiyama in that highlight video. Again neither were founders - Nakayama founded the JKA. He wasn't one of the originators of Karate in mainland Japan. He inherited the position because he was one of the few students of Funakoshi who hadn't died in the war or died of illness and was physically healthy.

What spacetime doesn't realise is - that is a demonstration - not reality. You have to be seriously mentally challenged to think Nakayama & Nishiyama were training those applications on a daily basis.

You also just proved my point by posting that video. Nearly all of the kicking demonstrated in that video are very basic fundamental kicking techniques. There are no axe kicks, no spinning side kicks, no spinning hook kicks, no hook kicks, no reverse roundhouse kicks (ushiro mawashi geris), no brazilian kicks (maha geris), no flying kicking technique of any sort etc etc.

It's the same three types of kicks repeated over and over again - roundhouse, front and side kick which is what others and I were pointing out.

If anyone is interested to know what the bread/butter kicking techniques of old shotokan karate were:



Even if you watch old karate tournaments from the 50's - you'll notice very little kicking.

Anyone who does karate will also notice that even though a variety of kicks were taught - the bread/butter were the kicks (a vast chunk of kicks weren't really used in self defense applications) above and the hands were used more along with grappling.

I mean now I think about it I can't recall any axe kicks, spinning side kicks, hook kicks, reverse roundhouse kicks, brazilian kicks etc in any of the old original katas of Karate.

 

[Azam]

Did you even bother to watch the full clip? There are flying kicks.

Reverse mawashi geri was used by my father to score a win vs the nr 2 ranked fighter in the world in JKA. Where did he learn that if not Shotokan? My father has only trained Shotokan.

Oh yes I just noticed a flying front kick - repeated a couple of times at the end. I was wrong on that end - just one flying kick - none of the rest.

Sorry as it was posted by you I couldn't finish the video. I hope you understand.

In regards to your dad I'm tapping out. I am working right now and need to get back to it.

Carry on trolling...

 

[spacetime]

Oh yes I just noticed a flying front kick - repeated a couple of times at the end. I was wrong on that end - just one flying kick - none of the rest.

Sorry as it was posted by you I couldn't finish the video. I hope you understand.

In regards to your dad I'm tapping out. I am working right now and need to get back to it.

Carry on trolling...

If you think Taekwondo guys spend vast amounts of time on aerials, hook kicks, spinning side kick, reverse turning kicks, you are mistaken. We mostly drill basics just like Karatekas. It's been at least 3 years since we had a flying sidekick drill.

If you compare a traditional Karate school to a traditional Taekwondo school, you will find very little difference.

 

[spacetime]

Oh yes I just noticed a flying front kick - repeated a couple of times at the end. I was wrong on that end - just one flying kick - none of the rest.

Sorry as it was posted by you I couldn't finish the video. I hope you understand.

In regards to your dad I'm tapping out. I am working right now and need to get back to it.

Carry on trolling...

You are wrong again. There is a flying sidekick performed at 4:08

 

[Azam]

You are wrong again. There is a flying sidekick performed at 4:08

You're on a roll

 

[spacetime]

You're on a roll

And at 4.15 and at 4:17!! My god.. How could you miss it?

Yup. Shotokan clearly has no aerials.

 

[AshiharaFan]

I noticed Nakayama and Nishiyama in that highlight video. Again neither were founders -

......of SHOTOKAN Karate.

Nakayama founded the JKA. He wasn't one of the originators of Karate in mainland Japan.

Exactly! He founded the JKA, he did NOT found Shotokan Karate.

What spacetime doesn't realise is - that is a demonstration - not reality.

On the contrary I will bet every dime I have in the bank that spacetime DOES realize that video is merely a demonstration and not reality. But how else is he going to troll if he doesn't play stupid?

You have to be seriously mentally challenged to think Nakayama & Nishiyama were training those applications on a daily basis.

Or that ANY OF IT is applicable in a fast and furious paced sparring match or in a life-or-death self defense situation.

 

[AshiharaFan]

Nakayama founded the Japan Karate Association.

He is a pivotal figure in Shotokan.

You could have been honest from the beginning and said Founder of the JKA instead of trying to be deceptive and merely saying Founders. You're not as slick as you think you are.

And your ONE DEMONSTRATION VIDEO still falls flat against the MILLIONS of Shotokan tournaments and sparring matches in which hand techniques dominate instead of kicks. Since sparring matches are spontaneous and not prearranged, they are at least 4 steps closer to reality than that prearranged demonstration video you posted (none of which is applicable in any real situation btw).

 

[spacetime]

You could have been honest from the beginning and said Founder of the JKA instead of trying to be deceptive and merely saying Founders. You're not as slick as you think you are.

And your ONE DEMONSTRATION VIDEO still falls flat against the MILLIONS of Shotokan tournaments and sparring matches in which hand techniques dominate instead of kicks. Since sparring matches are spontaneous and not prearranged, they are at least 4 steps closer to reality than that prearranged demonstration video you posted (none of which is applicable in any real situation btw).

Depends on who is fighting in Kumite. Older judges tended to be more conservative giving points to kicks.

Yugoslavs kicked a lot in JKA team Kumite nonetheless

 

[spacetime]

......of SHOTOKAN Karate.



Exactly! He founded the JKA, he did NOT found Shotokan Karate.



On the contrary I will bet every dime I have in the bank that spacetime DOES realize that video is merely a demonstration and not reality. But how else is he going to troll if he doesn't play stupid?



Or that ANY OF IT is applicable in a fast and furious paced sparring match or in a life-or-death self defense situation.

Why the fuck would they waste all that time demonstrating techniques they themselves don't believe in? Thruth of the matter is that traditional martial artist were indeed this delusional.

 

[shinkyoku]

Mas Oyama fighting!

Oyama play sparring IN HIS LATE 60ies!!

 

[spacetime]

Oyama play sparring IN HIS LATE 60ies!!

Well I should say sparring. But thats the only footage I can find.

The clip said fighting, though

 

[Frode Falch]

The reason i asked was because the syllabus of kyokusin is full of flying and spinning kicks. Even some double jumping kicks. So i figured maybe mas oyama put them there because his korean background? Even if he did not use them himself?

 

[spacetime]

The reason i asked was because the syllabus of kyokusin is full of flying and spinning kicks. Even some double jumping kicks. So i figured maybe mas oyama put them there because his korean background? Even if he did not use them himself?

But spins and turns to kicks are not Korean conventions at all. The founder of Tang Soo Do/Korean Karate openly wrote about the Chinese martial arts influences. And Karates kicks came from Chinese martial arts as well.

It's really all variants of Kung Fu.

 

[AshiharaFan]

Depends on who is fighting in Kumite. Older judges tended to be more conservative giving points to kicks.

Yugoslavs kicked a lot in JKA team Kumite nonetheless

Yo man, how about you cut the bullshit. I don't care about your empty words when you cannot post videos of SCORES of Shotokan (or even Goju ryu for that matter) tournaments and sparring matches in which the overwhelming techniques are kicking techniques. You literally and conveniently ignored THOUSANDS of YT vids showing Shotokan sparring and tourny matches and posted ONE video full of demonstrations.

Why the fuck would they waste all that time demonstrating techniques they themselves don't believe in? Thruth of the matter is that traditional martial artist were indeed this delusional.

For the same reason any other delusional TMAtist would do so; to WOW PEOPLE, ATTRACT ATTENTION AND WIN NEW STUDENTS!!!! There are plenty of people that watch Kung Fu flicks who so desparately want to believe that they can successfully beat up bad guys by using flashy, spectacular techniques. The demo vid you posted is to attract and further dumb down such people.

 

[AshiharaFan]

But spins and turns to kicks are not Korean conventions at all. The founder of Tang Soo Do/Korean Karate openly wrote about the Chinese martial arts influences. And Karates kicks came from Chinese martial arts as well.

It's really all variants of Kung Fu.

An ignorant and false statement! The birth of Karate is a culmination of the native fighting Tode in Okinawa and influences from various Chinese Martial Arts. You're using slick and deceptive language again and trying to make it sound as though Karate IS Chinese Martial Arts under a different name and culture. Okinawan Te had kicking techniques in their way of fighting even before their contact with Chinese Martial Arts. Stop talking as if the Chinese invented the idea of kicking people during a fight and were the only ones doing so while other fighting arts did not.

 

[spacetime]

Yo man, how about you cut the bullshit. I don't care about your empty words when you cannot post videos of SCORES of Shotokan (or even Goju ryu for that matter) tournaments and sparring matches in which the overwhelming techniques are kicking techniques. You literally and conveniently ignored THOUSANDS of YT vids showing Shotokan sparring and tourny matches and posted ONE video full of demonstrations.

For the same reason any other delusional TMAtist would do so; to WOW PEOPLE, ATTRACT ATTENTION AND WIN NEW STUDENTS!!!! There are plenty of people that watch Kung Fu flicks who so desparately want to believe that they can successfully beat up bad guys by using flashy, spectacular techniques. The demo vid you posted is to attract and further dumb down such people.

I know from first hand experience how TMA believe one stroke will do the job. Even illustrating silly knife hands to the ribs. They are completely deluded. Killing references are still made in my TKD school and this is 2018.

 

[spacetime]

An ignorant and false statement! The birth of Karate is a culmination of the native fighting Tode in Okinawa and influences from various Chinese Martial Arts. You're using slick and deceptive language again and trying to make it sound as though Karate IS Chinese Martial Arts under a different name and culture. Okinawan Te had kicking techniques in their way of fighting even before their contact with Chinese Martial Arts. Stop talking as if the Chinese invented the idea of kicking people during a fight and were the only ones doing so while other fighting arts did not.

And where did Okinawan Karate come from? The fact that they stem from the same tree doesn't mean the tree hasn't branched out. The tactics employed by a kung fu exponent of any style is quite different from Shotokan, Kyokushin, Taekwondo etc. Kung Fu guys tend to adhere to circular principles while Karate styles and TKD are more linear. That's just one of a dozen differences

 

[AshiharaFan]

And where did Okinawan Karate come from?

The answer to your question is self explanatory.

The fact that they stem from the same tree doesn't mean the tree hasn't branched out. The tactics employed by a kung fu exponent of any style is quite different from Shotokan, Kyokushin, Taekwondo etc. Kung Fu guys tend to adhere to circular principles while Karate styles and TKD are more linear. That's just one of a dozen differences

Literally NONE OF THIS has ANYTHING to do with nor negate the points that I made which are:

1). Karate IS NOT a variant of Kung Fu. PERIOD!!

2). Okinawan Te (or Tode as some would say) used kicking techniques BEFORE they had any contact with Chinese (or Japanese) Martial Arts. PERIOD!!

3). Chinese Martial Artists were NOT the inventors of the concept of kicking people when fighting nor were they the only ones using kicking techniques in their fighting arts. Okinawan, Japanese, Korean and Thai fighting arts were already well versed in the idea of kicking people before any of them had any contact with the Chinese Martial Arts. PERIOD!!

Btw, is it making your day that someone is willing to give you the attention you yearn for everytime you come to sherdog to troll?

 

[spacetime]

The answer to your question is self explanatory.



Literally NONE OF THIS has ANYTHING to do with nor negate the points that I made which are:

1). Karate IS NOT a variant of Kung Fu. PERIOD!!

2). Okinawan Te (or Tode as some would say) used kicking techniques BEFORE they had any contact with Chinese (or Japanese) Martial Arts. PERIOD!!

3). Chinese Martial Artists were NOT the inventors of the concept of kicking people when fighting nor were they the only ones using kicking techniques in their fighting arts. Okinawan, Japanese, Korean and Thai fighting arts were already well versed in the idea of kicking people before any of them had any contact with the Chinese Martial Arts. PERIOD!!

Btw, is it making your day that someone is willing to give you the attention you yearn for everytime you come to sherdog to troll?

I did not claim the Chinese were the inventors of kicking. Strawman. The kicks asssociated with Karate like sidekick, roundhouse kick with the ball of the foot etc are however imported from CM. Fact.

Mas Oyama grew up before Taekwondo was established. It was named in 1955 but hardly had much traction. Oyama visited the TKD teams but had no formal training that I know of with those guys.