How do I learn the takedowns that Josh Hinger does?

[mataleaos]

While I do agree on the surface, there is also a tendency, not saying it's you. For some bjj people to avoid learning from "wrestlers" as much as possible

Could it be because logistically it's not easy? I don't live in a place as big as SoCal or anything, but I went through a phase trying to learn wrestling from actual wrestlers. There aren't really classes for adults to go learn wrestling. Maybe there are in some places, but unless you're at an MMA gym with a dedicated wrestling class, what's the next best option? Trying to find a local college or high school that would let you work in? I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I know the top level BJJ guys could probably pay money and hire some wrestling coaches for private lessons, or find good wrestlers that do BJJ also and bring them into their academies, but I've always thought it was difficult as an adult to find a lot of serious training with serious wrestlers.

 

[mataleaos]

Learning bjj applicable takedowns from someone with a great track record in a bjj setting seems like a pretty good idea to me.

Definitely. And Atos had a wrestling coach. I don't know if they still do but before ADCC 2013 they definitely did.

I do think when learning a new sport/art that learning it by itself before trying to apply it to your sport/art is ideal. But if that's not an option, learning it from someone that has applied it to your sport already is a better idea than doing nothing.

 

[Kenny from MD]

When you train jiu jitsu do you just learn a submission and that's it? That's the submission you do no matter what? Or do you learn positions and set ups and reactions and how they link together so you can use the right tool for the right job?

Wrestling is not different. You're not gonna just learn a duck under and all the sudden master it. How do you learn the takedowns tat Hinger uses? LEARN TO WRESTLE. It's not that complicated. Everyone wants an easy answer, there isn't one.

Also LOL at the guy in that highlight that clutches his chest in pain on the ground when Hinger leads with his head on the double. What a vagina.

 

[Kenny from MD]

This is not true AT ALL. If you get guillotined failing on a duck under you are both defending guillotines wrong and ducking under wrong. Your posture should be unbreakable when peeking through. Again, this is so so wrong.

 

[jack36767]

Could it be because logistically it's not easy? I don't live in a place as big as SoCal or anything, but I went through a phase trying to learn wrestling from actual wrestlers. There aren't really classes for adults to go learn wrestling. Maybe there are in some places, but unless you're at an MMA gym with a dedicated wrestling class, what's the next best option? Trying to find a local college or high school that would let you work in? I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I know the top level BJJ guys could probably pay money and hire some wrestling coaches for private lessons, or find good wrestlers that do BJJ also and bring them into their academies, but I've always thought it was difficult as an adult to find a lot of serious training with serious wrestlers.

No im referring to specifically multiple real life cases I know of

 

[Cappy Goodtime]

I think a case could be made that the hobbyists need better wrestling than the elite guys. The elite guys are trying to game a set of rules to win a sport. Many hobbyists get into jiu jitsu for the martial art aspect of it. Without some effective form of wrestling, jiu-jitsu's viability as a martial art goes out the window.

 

[mataleaos]

No im referring to specifically multiple real life cases I know of

I wasn't trying to ask rhetorical questions. If you know of good ways to train with real wrestlers I would genuinely love to know. I've looked in my area and can't really find anything.

 

[jack36767]

I wasn't trying to ask rhetorical questions. If you know of good ways to train with real wrestlers I would genuinely love to know. I've looked in my area and can't really find anything.

It depends on the area you are in. Have you looked at local high school coaches and asked them for privates

 

[JonJonesLines]

It depends on the area you are in. Have you looked at local high school coaches and asked them for privates

Or just ask to come in and workout. Most coaches are cool with it (I know I am, I have 6-8 adults who come in and workout with the kids) as long as you aren't a weirdo. I require a background check through the school for liability reasons and I also don't want some predator in the room.

You'll get a HS aged kid to practice with, get to roll with them, and skip the sprints. We currently have 2 bjj brown and 1 purple belt who do so, the other 5 were former wrestlers who just live by the school or wrestled for me and then in college.

 

[JonJonesLines]

Plus it's free and I hook the guys with a shit ton of gear (normally 3 pairs of fight shorts, 2 pairs of athletic shorts, 3 different color t-shirts, 2 of each, a polo, and a sweatshirt). Most coaches won't do that but one of the guys who comes in and helps out donates 20k a year so we have a bunch of gear.

 

[yetanother]

When you train jiu jitsu do you just learn a submission and that's it?

In jiu jitsu I pick something that can be done from a position I know and I drill it and try it in (positional) sparring or I pick and new position watch a bunch of stuff from there (and how you hold it/enter it) and see if I can get it to work or get there.
How else can you learn stuff than by learning bits and pieces and putting it together?
Our wrestling coach doesn't teach anymore because he murdered a guy so I grab a partner and drill some moves.
I currently do mostly low singles (watched a DVD and some videos on it and drilled it a bit, I hit a ton of them from the butt scoot guard on people who try do stupid run around passes) or when I have the back clinch I jump into a baby bolo/crab guard (I saw Calasans do it at the ADCC and it works super well even again bigger roided out to the gill people).

 

[Wrestler160]

Hinger is a CIF champion not a state champion. Big difference.

CIF Champion is maybe equivalent to state placers in other states

 

[Dirty Holt]

Hinger was a CIF champ in the southern section. Thats huge. The 8th place guy in southern section could win state in many states. Wierdly though, Hinger wasnt in the bracket at state.

 

[HangNail]

Our wrestling coach doesn't teach anymore because he murdered a guy so I grab a partner and drill some moves.

Christ and I thought that not being allowed to coach for getting multiple DUIs was rough

 

[closequarters]

Also LOL at the guy in that highlight that clutches his chest in pain on the ground when Hinger leads with his head on the double. What a vagina.

That was pretty funny. Who would want to win that way? I'd rather just save my money than win on a DQ in the first few seconds. I wonder if Josh went to Knee on Belly purposely just because of it.

 

[rmongler]

Learning bjj applicable takedowns from someone with a great track record in a bjj setting seems like a pretty good idea to me.

You can look at top players to get an idea as to what techniques are working for them, but once you have the idea, it would behoove one to then look at people most proficient at those techniques. The two are not necessarily identical.

 

[Orion]

Yes the level of wrestling in bjj right now is much lower than I originally expected. I find wrestlers to on the whole be more athletic and stronger.
I'm surprised more elite bjj guys aren't wrestling 2-3x a week with high level wrestlers, especially if not specializing in sub only competitions.

I love wrestling personally, but would that really be a good use of time considering the leg lock/guard pulling-happy meta that seems to dominate at the high level currently?

 

[ikareteru]

One thing to keep in mind is that a standard duck under, if you don't hit it right, leaves you very open for a guillotine. Obviously not a problem in wrestling, but a big one in BJJ. I would guess that one reason Hinger stays a lot higher than you'd normally want on his ducks (other than that the stances are more upright in most of these matches than in a folk match) is to minimize the choke risk. Granted, it makes the TD a lot uglier since he's not able to turn the corner as much, but it's also a lot safer for jiu jitsu.

Not a problem if you do the duck under while looking up towards the sky.

 

[Thalion]

Hinger was a CIF champ in the southern section. Thats huge. The 8th place guy in southern section could win state in many states. Wierdly though, Hinger wasnt in the bracket at state.

I am really looking forward to October to see him compete in Baku at UWW World Grappling Championship

He should fight 84kg that wrestling wise has a good talent pool.

At last year world all top 4 were really good in Wrestling

1 cl Melan Djati ---> MMA Pro fighter from France
2 cl Tsikhaev Rasul -->Daghestan Olympic wrestling fighting for the Belarus National Team
3 cl Purtiyev Hajimurad --> good wrestler from Azerbaijan
3 cl Magomedov Shamil --> MMA Pro fighter from Daghestan

 

[Uchi Mata]

Not a problem if you do the duck under while looking up towards the sky.

Literally everything works if you do it perfectly at the right time. Given that that's impossible for most of the population, it's pretty typical to see moves modified slightly to remove elements of risk under various rule sets. I don't know that that's what happening here, but it wouldn't surprise me.