Has Jon Jones weakened the UFC > PRIDE argument?

[george14]

This pertains to drug use between the two.

First off, yes I am certain PRIDE featured more steroid users than the UFC overall. However, I see many of the "new age" UFC fans clamoring how PRIDE essentially doesn't count because they didn't test for steroids. Even though they did test for PRIDE 32 and 33 (which Fedor was on and passed btw) because it was in the USA.

To me it's simple, fighters in the UFC simply found ways to beat the tests or used masking agents. Look at the champs who have tested positive: Jones x2, Lesnar, Cyborg, Anderson, JDS, Machida (probably unfair), Royce, not to mention the suspicious stories around Aldo.

Many of those guys are icons of the UFC and I didn't list everyone, just champs I could think of. Do you guys think this argument is becoming less effective as time goes on? Or am I just retarded? Feel free to rip me. Just my honest thoughts here.

 

[Buff]

Pride was better.

We will never have monster fights at the top level ever again because of USADA.

 

[Heelhook71]

I think it's pretty obvious that pride was just more open about it, but the UFC pre USADA has just as much going on.

 

[Karelinator]

There's no argument that UFC > PRIDE.

So there's nothing to weaken.

 

[george14]

There's no argument that UFC > PRIDE.

So there's nothing to weaken.

Well, I think there is. People want to say how PRIDE was not authentic because everyone was roiding. When in reality it appears just as many guys are roiding in the UFC.

Don't forget guys like Rampage, Chuck, Anderson, Vitor, Nog, etc. came over from PRIDE to the UFC and became champions.

 

[steamboat100]

i am under no illusion that the ufc is much cleaner than pride

but i steadfastly believe that pride is the lesser of the two and fedor is not the goat.

 

[savemgs]

 

[savemgs]

Well, I think there is. People want to say how PRIDE was not authentic because everyone was roiding. When in reality it appears just as many guys are roiding in the UFC.

Don't forget guys like Rampage, Chuck, Anderson, Vitor, Nog, etc. came over from PRIDE to the UFC and became champions.

Chuck & Vitor?

 

[george14]

Chuck & Vitor?

Yes?

 

[chinarice]

Anyone that argues a fighter is an organization fighter are the dumbest kids in the room.

 

[accolyte1022]

Lol, pretty much. It was encouraged.

 

[BigMuffler]

Anyone that argues a fighter is an organization fighter are the dumbest kids in the room.

Cole Konrad is a Bellator fighter.

CM Punk is a UFC fight through and through.

 

[eiyuu]

Yes?

They were in the UFC before they were in PRIDE.

Beyond basically encouraging steroid use (Enson Inoue: In our contracts there was a clause that specifically stated, “We do not test for steroids.” In other words, it was like a clause that you can do steroids.), there was a lot of other factors about PRIDE that diminished its greatness--biased judging, worked fights, having less than deserving fighters in their Grand Prix tournaments (who were basically there just to give the Japanese fighters an easy ride), and believe it or not, the pay wasn't really all that great for all figthters either.

 

[Claude]

There's an argument for UFC > Pride?

Pride proved to be vastly superior. Several guys won belts and others became contenders. Some are still top ranked in the UFC today, 10 years after Pride folded.

 

[george14]

They were in the UFC before they were in PRIDE.

Beyond basically encouraging steroid use (Enson Inoue: In our contracts there was a clause that specifically stated, “We do not test for steroids.” In other words, it was like a clause that you can do steroids.), there was a lot of other factors about PRIDE that diminished its greatness--biased judging, worked fights, having less than deserving fighters in their Grand Prix tournaments (who were basically there just to give the Japanese fighters an easy ride), and believe it or not, the pay wasn't really all that great for all figthters either.

I'm aware of that. I said they came over from PRIDE to the UFC, which they did. What is the debate here? They fought in PRIDE...that was my point.

Many guys posted losing records in PRIDE who became UFC champs.

 

[shortlefthook]

Well, I think there is. People want to say how PRIDE was not authentic because everyone was roiding. When in reality it appears just as many guys are roiding in the UFC.

Don't forget guys like Rampage, Chuck, Anderson, Vitor, Nog, etc. came over from PRIDE to the UFC and became champions.

Rampage spoke out about pride being Bullshit, drawing names from hats, refs giving fighters certain instructions ect.

Coleman said that 90 percent of early pride fights were fake.

And for sure those guys became champions but they were also forced to fight actual ranked contenders, not guys from japans pro wrestling team

 

[eiyuu]

I'm aware of that. I said they came over from PRIDE to the UFC, which they did. What is the debate here? They fought in PRIDE...that was my point.

Many guys posted losing records in PRIDE who became UFC champs.

And your point is muddled because of their fighting in the UFC first.

Otherwise, using your line of thinking, it can be argued that Wanderlei Silva (1-2 in the UFC before heading to Japan) and Sakuraba (1-1 in the UFC) went from the UFC to PRIDE and took over the place making the UFC the better org.

 

[DespicablePeep]

There was never an argument to begin with

Spoiler

PRIDE>ufc

 

[SMEGMA]

The only people who think Pride was better are WWE fans.

 

[george14]

And your point is muddled because of their fighting in the UFC first.

Otherwise, using your line of thinking, it can be argued that Wanderlei Silva (1-2 in the UFC before heading to Japan) and Sakuraba (1-1 in the UFC) went from the UFC to PRIDE and took over the place making the UFC the better org.

My point was very clear, many guys who fought in PRIDE became champions in the UFC. I don't care who went where first. My problem is people acting like PRIDE was garbage. 90% of those fans are McGregor/Rousey fanboys who never watched PRIDE. You are bringing records into this, I simply said the UFC had champions from PRIDE. So it's not like PRIDE was strictly filled with cab drivers.

Early UFC was trash as well. It featured one dimensional fighters. No doubt in my mind the fighters today in the UFC are overall better than PRIDE fighters, but the organizations as a whole were pretty even. My point is geared more toward steroid use. To me it's a garbage argument because guys are getting popped left and right in the UFC as well.