Has BJJ Stopped evolving for MMA?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by dmwalking, Feb 7, 2016.

  1. dmwalking Sapateiro Belt

    dmwalking
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    I know that some people believe that UFC 1 proved that traditional martial arts are ineffective in real life. But in reality, all it did was show a hole in traditional martial arts. As UFC's continued, in less than a decade, BJJ was no longer king. Wrestlers were learning how defend submissions. Strikers were learning how to stuff takedowns. So while UFC 1 exposed the fact that most martial arts have no ground game, modern MMA is exposing the fact that BJJ has no stand up game. And that, in my opinion, is a problem.

    I remember there was a time where maybe 50% of black belts dreamed of testing themselves in MMA. The Nog bros even ditched the gi for a while. There was a time where guys wanted to represent BJJ as a martial art that was still relevant. But what's the current role of BJJ in MMA? Watching Feijao have a pretty useless guard against OSP tells me. It's supplemental. It's not treated as essential. It's not your rifle. It's not even your side arm. It's your knife. It's like a last resort. A forgotten tool unless the opportunity presents itself.

    Even when it's used, it's mostly just the same basic stuff that we've seen for years. Meanwhile, BJJ players are evolving the art at a rapid rate in a sport context. Sitting straight to their butts. Spinning upside down, pulling pants, and tying the gi in knots. I notice that the new BJJ dream isn't to compete in MMA. It's to win medals and open a school.

    So all of this leads me to ask, has BJJ stopped evolving for MMA? Is this it? BJJ has reached it's maximum potential as a martial art in MMA? There is nothing else that can be done to improve its effectiveness? It really makes me wonder if BJJ really is the ultimate martial art or if it really is more of a back up plan.

    I almost feel like boxing would be a better martial art to learn.
     
    #1
  2. lechien Gold Belt

    lechien
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    Bjj gyms are full of paying customers.
    You want to rep bjj in mma.
    Go for it.
    Wish you the best.
     
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  3. These Two Hands Our revenge will be the laughter of our children

    These Two Hands
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    I always sort of thought it was more along the lines of BJJ being part of the 101 "core curriculum" of MMA anyway. You've either got to know it, or know how to contend with it.

    Boxing is always good to learn, though. Street-wise BJJ will get ya less convictions though ;)
     
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  4. Ckaa Orange Belt

    Ckaa
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    The next generation of BJJ guys in MMA will be leglockers. It shuts down the wrestling aspect of MMA. They just have to have the complete package (Ryan Hall/Tonon/Held style) and not be a leglock or die guy (Palhares, well his fight against Shields proved he could go back to more "traditionnal" BJJ instead of focusing only on the leg).

    But all in all the unified rules stopped BJJ much more than the "evolution of MMA". When you have strapped et gloved hands with 5 min rounds (white belt time rule for BJJ competition...) and ref standup when drunken meatheads from the public are booing...

    The rules are better suited for the roided american wrestler/brawler.

    MMA should be 10 or 15 minute round without any ref actions (when no fools are done).
     
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  5. EndlessCritic Gold Belt

    EndlessCritic
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    Not even close.

    As mentioned, there is still a lot of evolution with respect to leglocks to go, and imo, there is a significant amount of evolution to go with respect to back control.
     
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  6. Kingbedlam Yellow Belt

    Kingbedlam
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    Ryan Hall, Kron Gracie and (soon) Garry Tonen say otherwise.
     
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  7. Badger67 Taxidea taxus

    Badger67
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    It hasn't finished evolving, its just taking a nap. I agree leg lockers are going to change the game, and this was a part of why i loved them so much from the get go. Lots of damage in little time, good control, etc. 1 round mma fights would be better though for a lot of reasons.
     
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  8. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    feijao was there to collect a check.

    I believe everyone has decent subdefense in the UFC, add to that their are some physical beasts, plus the time limits, the stand ups, the fucking gloves, well, its not an enviroment that is ideal for submissions. I believe leg locks will be bigger from some time on, as better leg lockers switch to mma. But you do have a point, before mma was the goeal now its sport bjj mostly.
     
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  9. dmwalking Sapateiro Belt

    dmwalking
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    I appreciate the feedback, but I'm not sure where your point answers my question. Those tai chi invisible touch dim mak guys also have gyms full of paying customers. So again, I'm not sure that your comment is relevant to this thread. The sky is also blue. Water is also wet. But we're not discussing that.
     
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  10. TheGZA Excellent! But not good.

    TheGZA
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  11. Badger67 Taxidea taxus

    Badger67
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    Catching a guillotine on a shitty fatigued double leg doesn't mean much. CV fatigued after 1 minute. Good victory for werdum, but its not like its an inherent good display of jits.
     
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  12. RTD1 Blue Belt

    RTD1
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    It's all about rulesets.

    Modern MMA with 5 minute rounds, ref standups, and judges who score being on your back as negative are what has lessened the impact of BJJ in MMA.

    Likewise, some of the silliness you see in sport BJJ is due to the ban on knee reaping, the way advantages are awarded, etc.
     
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  13. jack36767 Brown Belt

    jack36767
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    Ahh yes, just blame the rules and leave it at that
     
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  14. Gentle Giant White Belt

    Gentle Giant
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    Absolutely. It's not until now we have known that the name of the game is cross training. Everyone was shocked when they found out that BJJ had no stand-up game at all!


    I remember that time too, but I actually think it was more than 50% of BJJ black belts who wanted to do MMA. I think it was more like 150%! It's true. It was back when BJJ was still relevant. And you're right, Feijao having a useless guard just proves it. It really is a supplemental, and not essential element of MMA. I mean, nobody gets caught in submissions anymore because it's so easy to defend!
    I'm sure that if you ask UFC competitors who have Black belts like Maia, Jacare, Werdum, Yoel Romero, Big Nog, Weidman, Jake Shields, Palhares, Ryan Hall, Dos Anjoes, de Oliveria, Tanquinho, Gilbert Burns, Bibano Fernandens, Shinya Aoki, Chris Holdsworth, Nate Diaz, Joe Lauzon, Wilson Reis, Davi Ramos, Anderson Silva, Wanderlei, GSP, Matt Serra and BJ Penn, they will all tell you that BJJ was a waste of time and that they should just have watched some youtube videos. anybody can learn some bjj escapes easily.

    All these losers never got anywhere by using their BJJ. That to me proves that BJJ is irrelevant in modern MMA.



    This is true. BJJ sports guys are scissoring each other and butt scooting. the fact that they don't do that in MMA proves that BJJ doesn't work in MMA anymore.



    Ohh yeah, boxing is a much better art. I think BJJ is completely useless, and anybody who says otherwise should take another look at Feijaos guard. You can always look at the causation by looking at the correlation. THAT IS SCIENCE.
    the truth of the matter is that BJJ is not effective, and that is why it is not evolving. I heard someone say that it doesn't change that much, just like striking is not changing so much and what that really tells us is that the basics in both grappling and striking are important! HAHAHHA.. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. everyone who watches UFC knows that they throw new punches and kicks in every fight and that is great because it means it is evolving. like pokemon, and not like Feijaos guard. the BJJ community really screwed up when they put all of their hopes behind feijaos guard, haha.



    There is one thing BJJ can do to be more effective for MMA- remove all BJJ, and replace it with aikido logs and exercises from wii fitness. it still wont be great but it will be more useful than BJJ currently is for MMA. Boxing and wrestling is the way to go. just youtube submission defence and throw your black belt in the trash. its only good for butt scooting and scissoring your sensei. I remember a time when submissions worked, but now a days its just wrestling submissions and TKOs. nobody ever gets submitted. ohh BJJ you're so irrelevant!
     
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  15. jack36767 Brown Belt

    jack36767
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    It is with no sarcasm I salute your sarcasm sir
     
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  16. DoctorTaco Breadhead

    DoctorTaco
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    Guys are learning jiu jitsu to stop jiu jitsu. Makes JJ seem pretty relevant to me
     
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  17. lechien Gold Belt

    lechien
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    John danaher and renzo gracie are into fighting.

    Maybe their JJ would be more to your liking.
     
    #17
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2016
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  18. EndlessCritic Gold Belt

    EndlessCritic
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    Ding ding ding.

    Jiujitsu does not seem to decide many fights because it is so important that everyone trains it so extensively.
     
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  19. LocalNmass Blue Belt

    LocalNmass
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    TS, I think your reading to much into one fighter. Feijao has never been a guy to employ the classic BJJ philosophy or have an attacking guard.
    Go watch Maia/Magny or Ortiz/Tavares to see BJJ on display both offensively and defensively.
     
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  20. freaky Banned

    freaky
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    To go with Sherdog logic. BJJ was never that good.
     
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