International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

[Anewt]

https://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/israel-seizes-gaza-key-border-crossing-in-rafah/news-story/4e6ddc670624a70d7bef2d6b3bdf3817

Israel seizes Gaza key border crossing in Rafah
Israel has taken control of Gaza’s border crossing into Egypt just hours after its Rafah offensive began.
Israel sent tanks into Rafah in southern Gaza, seizing control of and sealing the border crossing with Egypt on Tuesday (local time) as its offensive continues.

The border is a key gateway for humanitarian aid into Gaza where conditions are desperate.

The White House said the closure was “unacceptable”.


The crossings that have been closed need to be reopened, it is unacceptable for them to be closed,” Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre told a briefing on Tuesday adding that another crossing, at Kerem Shalom, was expected to reopen Wednesday

UN humanitarian office spokesman Jens Laerke said Israel had denied it access to both Rafah and Kerem Shalom — the other main Gaza aid crossing, on the border with Israel — with only “one day of fuel available” inside the besieged territory.

At the United Nations, Secretary-General Antonio Guterres urged Israel to “stop any escalation” and “immediately” reopen the crossings.

“The closure of both... crossings is especially damaging to an already dire humanitarian situation”, Guterres said, warning that “a full-scale assault on Rafah will be a human catastrophe”.

 

[Snubnoze707]

lol. again, you are just making shit up. they didn't have anything to do with gaza voting hamas into power. and you, like your buddy, won't present anything suggesting they did.

Are you fucking retarded? Are you not even reading my posts?

 

[kflo]

No, you just keep arguing a strawman that I'm claiming Israel specifically got Hamas elected into power in 2006. I've already conceded that the Palestinians elected them, that isn't the argument. The argument is that Israel has used Hamas as a tool to divide the Palestinians and to be used as grounds for their hostile actions against Gaza. There are quotes of high ranking official after high ranking official that support this, not just random opinions from nobodies.

Israel helped create Hamas in the late 1970's well before 2006. The Israeli governor in Gaza Yitzhak Segev admitted that he helped fund Hamas to be used as a "counterweight" to the PLO. There is 30 years of evidence supporting my stance. This doesn't begin and end with the 2006 election. This has been a long standing tactic that is backed up by direct quotes that you continue to ignore.

they helped create hamas in the 70s. then in the 80s, hamas radicalized and pledged to eliminate israel and they had war, violence, assassinations and hostilities through the 2000s.

AFTER hamas was elected in 2006, against the wants of israel, israel had to deal with the reality in gaza. hamas was the governing body. so israel needed to deal with that reality.

you left this out, unsurprisingly, in context of your buddy yadlin:

• Yadlin's relatively relaxed attitude toward the deteriorating security situation in Gaza represents a shift in IDF thinking from last fall, when the Southern Command supported a major ground operation into Gaza to remove the growing threat from Hamas. While many media commentators continue to make that argument, Yadlin's view appears to be more in synch with that of Chief of General Staff Ashkenazi, who also believes that the more serious threat to Israel currently comes from the north.
• Yadlin described Gaza as "not Israel's main problem," noting that it ranked fourth in his hierarchy of threats, behind Iran, Syria, and Hizballah. Yadlin described Gaza as "hopeless for now," commenting that the Palestinians had to realize that Hamas offered no solution.

 

[Anewt]

Interesting read / watch. 2018 article

Blowback: How Israel Went From Helping Create Hamas to Bombing It

Hamas wants to destroy Israel, right? But as Mehdi Hasan shows in a new video on blowback, Israeli officials admit they helped start the group.

theintercept.com

Listen to former Israeli officials such as Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, who was the Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s. Segev later told a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat (who himself referred to Hamas as “a creature of Israel.”)

“The Israeli government gave me a budget,” the retired brigadier general confessed, “and the military government gives to the mosques.”

“Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” Avner Cohen, a former Israeli religious affairs official who worked in Gaza for more than two decades, told the Wall Street Journal in 2009. Back in the mid-1980s, Cohen even wrote an official report to his superiors warning them not to play divide-and-rule in the Occupied Territories, by backing Palestinian Islamists against Palestinian secularists. “I … suggest focusing our efforts on finding ways to break up this monster before this reality jumps in our face,” he wrote.

 

[Jack V Savage]

-dude posting from the Imperial core of the most bloodthirsty nation in the world and the #1 global exporter of propaganda in the world

China? Russia?

 

[Snubnoze707]

they helped create hamas in the 70s. then in the 80s, hamas radicalized and pledged to eliminate israel and they had war, violence, assassinations and hostilities through the 2000s.

AFTER hamas was elected in 2006, against the wants of israel, israel had to deal with the reality in gaza. hamas was the governing body. so israel needed to deal with that reality.

you left this out, unsurprisingly, in context of your buddy yadlin:

• Yadlin's relatively relaxed attitude toward the deteriorating security situation in Gaza represents a shift in IDF thinking from last fall, when the Southern Command supported a major ground operation into Gaza to remove the growing threat from Hamas. While many media commentators continue to make that argument, Yadlin's view appears to be more in synch with that of Chief of General Staff Ashkenazi, who also believes that the more serious threat to Israel currently comes from the north.
• Yadlin described Gaza as "not Israel's main problem," noting that it ranked fourth in his hierarchy of threats, behind Iran, Syria, and Hizballah. Yadlin described Gaza as "hopeless for now," commenting that the Palestinians had to realize that Hamas offered no solution.

Hamas branched off of the Muslim Brotherhood... they were ALREADY radical from the start.

Hamas wasn't in power in 2006, they didn't take over until later in 2007 as the Fatah did not relinquish power after the election. Again, the argument was never that Israel "rigged" the election. They helped create a powerful entity to be a counterweight to the PLO and to be a cause for grounds to be hostile towards Gaza and those things HAPPENED. I am not taking anything out of context, I provided you with those clear direct quotes. You adding other quotes that they thought Hamas was a threat, no shit, that was the point you moron.

 

[HomeCheese]

Al Jazeera is the biggest muslim propaganda source in the world

I'm not so sure about that. They actually have a good reputation, certainly much better than something like FoxNews in the US.

 

[kflo]

Hamas branched off of the Muslim Brotherhood... they were ALREADY radical from the start.

Hamas wasn't in power in 2006, they didn't take over until later in 2007 as the Fatah did not relinquish power after the election. Again, the argument was never that Israel "rigged" the election. They helped create a powerful entity to be a counterweight to the PLO and to be a cause for grounds to be hostile towards Gaza and those things HAPPENED. I am not taking anything out of context, I provided you with those clear direct quotes. You adding other quotes that they thought Hamas was a threat, no shit, that was the point you moron.

They created an entity in the 70s. They then became mortal enemies by the mid 80s. As noted in Hamas 1988 charter pledging to destroy Israel. If you keep trying to pretend Israel and Hamas was supportive of Israel from this time through their assuming control of Gaza you’d be lying of course.

And you conveniently ignored that Israel was contemplating going into Gaza to remove the threat of Hamas in 2006. From your own Wikileaks source.

So yea, you are taking things out of context and trying to paint a picture that wasn’t true. Israel dealt with the reality in Gaza. Hamas was in control. Again your own wiki source knew Hamas controlled Gaza.

• They understand that the balance of power favors Hamas, which "can take over Gaza any time it wants to." Yadlin said he would be surprised if Fatah fights, and even more surprised if they win. As far as he was concerned, this had been the case for the past year.

So. Israel helped create Hamas after which they had 20 years of war and hostilities prior to Hamas winning the election in Gaza. Which prompted Israel to seriously consider a major ground operation to remove them. THAT is the truth.

Once it was clear that Hamas ruled Gaza Israel then had to figure out what to do with Gaza. And again, as noted, Hamas ranked 4th in terms of worry and threat to Israel at the time.

Israel had no means to remove Hamas from power without military action.

But you guys will keep trying to frame Hamas as ruling Gaza because of israel. It’s fuckin gross.

 

[brothir]

China? Russia?

He will deny glossing over China's human rights abuses. Haven't seen anything to suggest he's aware of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

 

[iwannabeadored]

lol. again, you are just making shit up. they didn't have anything to do with gaza voting hamas into power. and you, like your buddy, won't present anything suggesting they did.

There are numerous quotes that have been presented since this thread started talking about how the Israeli government supported Hamas.

There’s no debate here. Hamas is evil and has killed less than 3000 people since its inception.


Lukid and the Israelis have killed. 1000s upon 1000s.

 

[kflo]

There are numerous quotes that have been presented since this thread started talking about how the Israeli government supported Hamas.

There’s no debate here. Hamas is evil and has killed less than 3000 people since its inception.


Lukid and the Israelis have killed. 1000s upon 1000s.

And again none of those quotes were from before they were already voted into power by the people of Gaza. Which in itself almost lead to a ground invasion. Which of course the anti Israeli crowd (like you) would have criticized them for.

 

[fedoriswar37]

OH GAWD.. That's Volodymyr Zelenskys music.

 

[blackheart]

China? Russia?

Such a delusional take which one of these countries has the highest body count since the end of ww2? Which country is the #1 military spender? Which country has the most extensive and most influential media networks?

(Hint: it isn't Russia or China idiot)

(Pssst hey Jackie lean in a little bit. Come closer. Wanna know a secret...? Every evil empire or country in history always thought of themselves as the good guys doing the right thing. That's you. You're the little npc living in the most bloodthirsty empire on earth, thinking you're actually the good guys)

 

[sangreporsangre]

 

[Jack V Savage]

Such a delusional take which one of these countries has the highest body count since the end of ww2?

"Delusional" even. Wow. The Cultural Revolution was after WWII. The Holodomor wasn't, but that's a bit weaselly, and there were other atrocities that we don't have a good start and end date for, etc. Not that that's a great metric anyway. Especially since you added propaganda (for people outraged about Israel banning opposition propaganda, look up what those countries do!).

Which country is the #1 military spender? Which country has the most extensive and most influential media networks?

The U.S. is the No. 1 military spender (USA! USA!) and probably has the most extensive media networks, though I hope you're not comparing, say, the NYT to RT or whatever the fuck they're doing in China. Bad enough that hacks here compare real news to Fox or Breitbart.

(Hint: it isn't Russia or China idiot)

(Pssst hey Jackie lean in a little bit. Come closer. Wanna know a secret...? Every evil empire or country in history always thought of themselves as the good guys doing the right thing. That's you. You're the little npc living in the most bloodthirsty empire on earth, thinking you're actually the good guys)

Actually, I think there's a bunch of guys here, some good some not. But we have a pretty good system for keeping things running pretty well despite that, which Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, and others do not. Being able to criticize your own country for its flaws is good; being unable to recognize its comparative virtues is not.

 

[djacobox372]

There are numerous quotes that have been presented since this thread started talking about how the Israeli government supported Hamas.

There’s no debate here. Hamas is evil and has killed less than 3000 people since its inception.


Lukid and the Israelis have killed. 1000s upon 1000s.

You obviously aren't counting Palestinians in your Hamas kill-tally. They've killed more of their own then any anybody else.

The fact that Hamas hasn't killed millions is due to the Israeli operations that have killed thousands upon thousands.

 

[iwannabeadored]

Hamas branched off of the Muslim Brotherhood... they were ALREADY radical from the start.

Hamas wasn't in power in 2006, they didn't take over until later in 2007 as the Fatah did not relinquish power after the election. Again, the argument was never that Israel "rigged" the election. They helped create a powerful entity to be a counterweight to the PLO and to be a cause for grounds to be hostile towards Gaza and those things HAPPENED. I am not taking anything out of context, I provided you with those clear direct quotes. You adding other quotes that they thought Hamas was a threat, no shit, that was the point you moron.

Are you denying that Israel and lukid did not want to split the Palestinian leadership to weaken them and prevent a two state solution?

 

[GhostZ06]

 

[iwannabeadored]

So has the pretense of “we are only killing Hamas” ended with the pro Israel crowd here?

 

[iwannabeadored]

Lol. I'd be embarrassed to admit that I swallowed hamas propaganda hook line and sinker

And in 7 months none of you have really had any kind of plans for what Israel should have done other than take that terrorist attack on the chin and give in to terrorist demands.

And yea there's a big overlap between hamas and Palestinian civilians. Ya know like consent of the governed ? Like they believe in the same things and on 10/6 probably thought it a good idea to attack Israel.

So what you’re saying it’s ok to kill Hamas and the Palestinians because they believe the same things?

That’s saying the quiet part out loud.

Wish you guys would stop acting like a full on war can be handled like some sort of covert black ops mission or like the Palestinians didn't do this to themselves