Gordon Ryan just called out Marcelo's top 3

randomg1t said:
and you sound obnoxious.



considering who he tapped and how he tapped them when he was active, i'd say he'd choke the piss out of everyone. john has literally no competition credentials. he already owned renzo. i don't think it's much of a stretch to say he'd beat three up and coming guys, when he made a name for himself by absolutely clowning top level competitors... for a fucking decade. people who train with him claim he's still quite there.

he might be out of shape, but this is marcelo. a 4 time ADCC champ, multiple time IBJJF world champ, a guy who consistently faced the absolute best both gi and nogi, and whose submission rate is incredible.
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But I'm not angry...

I don't think it's impossible or anything. Just that it's a big thing to undertake when he hasn't competed in 5 years. Individually I would favor him, all of them I would have doubts.
 
IamStryker said:
Serious question. Is Marcelo really still the undisputed best? When is the last time that he competed?
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I mean he hasn't competed in 5 years, but on his website against top competitors like Braulio Estima, he actually looks better in some ways than he did when he competed against those people. For example he lost to Braulio twice by sub. Gym rolls don't count but if it's any indication, he's just not in tip top shape right now. But his technique is as sharp as ever.

This is what hype does. I like the Danaher guys a lot and I study them a lot. But in no gi Marcelo is the best ever. 4 ADCC golds ('03, '05, '07, '11) an ADCC Absolute bronze ('03 and '05) and and ADCC Absolute silver ('07). In Marcelo's last year of competition he won the Mundials and ADCC without a point scored against him.

He submitted 24 out of his 27 wins at ADCC and 32 out of his last 37 no gi wins in total. He did all of this with basically just 4 subs. Rear naked chokes, guillotines, north south chokes, straight armbars, and maybe a wrist lock, triangle, and a heel hook. The only two people that he has faced at ADCC and beaten without ever submitting them are Renzo Grazie in 2003 and Leo Santos in 2005. Marcelo did sub only before it was a thing because he only subbed people.

He's only lost one no gi match at his own weight class to Pablo Popovitch (who Marcelo submitted in '05 and 07) by a last second guard pass as time ended, because Marcelo wasn't content riding out a win. Marcelo's only other ADCC losses are in the Absolute, to Mario Cruz ('03) Jacare ('05), Robert Drysdale ('07 Finals), and Braulio Estima ('09). It's worth noting that Marcelo was only subbed in no gi by larger opponents (Jacare and Robert Drysdale).

Not only that but the man innovated stuff that's so simple we take it for granted. I don't even mean the guillotine or the RNC. I just mean the simple seatbelt grip.

The DDS is fantastic and I know they prefer sub only to adcc but I'd really like to see any color of adcc medal among them before we start talking about any of them against Marcelo Garcia.
 
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Just one thing among dozens that stand out about Marcelo. Some of this is mma math but whatever. In his last ADCC in 2011, Marcelo Garcia submitted Victor Estima in about 30-40 seconds. Victor went on the next month to Estima lock all 3 or 4 people in his division (including current ADCC champ Davi Ramos) to win the No Gi Worlds. Marcelo made world class grapplers look silly. The current ADCC absolute champ, Claudio Calasans fought a hard match with Leo Vieira in the 2011 semis and lost at the last second (literally) when Leo took his back. Marcelo took down, passed, mounted, and triangled Leo right after in just a few minutes during the finals.
 
mataleaos said:
Marcelo Garcia submitted Victor Estima in about 30-40 seconds.

...

Marcelo took down, passed, mounted, and triangled Leo right after in just a few minutes during the finals.
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this needs to be repeated for clarity.

victor estima is an absolute monster, and marcelo owned him. he didn't just beat him, he smashed him to shit. leo vieira is one of the best in the history of the sport. he's freakin one of a kind, and marcelo handled him like he was a purple belt.

these are not your average good competitors, these are guys who are well ahead of the pack. they run through tournaments filled with top level competition. and when they face marcelo, they have nothing for him.
 
randomg1t said:
this needs to be repeated for clarity.

victor estima is an absolute monster, and marcelo owned him. he didn't just beat him, he smashed him to shit. leo vieira is one of the best in the history of the sport. he's freakin one of a kind, and marcelo handled him like he was a purple belt.

these are not your average good competitors, these are guys who are well ahead of the pack. they run through tournaments filled with top level competition. and when they face marcelo, they have nothing for him.
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Also people act like Leo Vieira was older that year he lost to Marcelo and he was, so was Marcelo, and Leo still went through Enrico Cocco, JT Torres, and Claudio Calasans to get to Marcelo, and then next ADCC Leo Vieira managed to take out AJ Agazarm.
 
Anything related to Danaher comes off as so douchy lately. There is actually a group called Danaher death squad? Years ago, everyone was calling this guy a genius (except for those of us in MD) despite his lack of accomplishment.

But in the culture of social media where even BJJ guys are famous he comes off as a total tool and his students exhibit everything you are not encouraged to do in BJJ culture. I don't remember calling people out to ever be acceptable. Have people shown up at different schools to settle differences or prove something? Sure. But call outs and acting like you are Floyd Mayweather or Conor Mc Arsehole is such a douchy turnoff.

NYC doesn't even have the best BJJ on the east coast.
 
mataleaos said:
I mean he hasn't competed in 5 years, but on his website against top competitors like Braulio Estima, he actually looks better in some ways than he did when he competed against those people. For example he lost to Braulio twice by sub. Gym rolls don't count but if it's any indication, he's just not in tip top shape right now. But his technique is as sharp as ever.

This is what hype does. I like the Danaher guys a lot and I study them a lot. But in no gi Marcelo is the best ever. 4 ADCC golds ('03, '05, '07, '11) an ADCC Absolute bronze ('03 and '05) and and ADCC Absolute silver ('07). In Marcelo's last year of competition he won the Mundials and ADCC without a point scored against him.

He submitted 24 out of his 27 wins at ADCC and 32 out of his last 37 no gi wins in total. He did all of this with basically just 4 subs. Rear naked chokes, guillotines, north south chokes, straight armbars, and maybe a wrist lock, triangle, and a heel hook. The only two people that he has faced at ADCC and beaten without ever submitting them are Renzo Grazie in 2003 and Leo Santos in 2005. Marcelo did sub only before it was a thing because he only subbed people.

He's only lost one no gi match at his own weight class to Pablo Popovitch (who Marcelo submitted in '05 and 07) by a last second guard pass as time ended, because Marcelo wasn't content riding out a win. Marcelo's only other ADCC losses are in the Absolute, to Mario Cruz ('03) Jacare ('05), Robert Drysdale ('07 Finals), and Braulio Estima ('09). It's worth noting that Marcelo was only subbed in no gi by larger opponents (Jacare and Robert Drysdale).

Not only that but the man innovated stuff that's so simple we take it for granted. I don't even mean the guillotine or the RNC. I just mean the simple seatbelt grip.

The DDS is fantastic and I know they prefer sub only to adcc but I'd really like to see any color of adcc medal among them before we start talking about any of them against Marcelo Garcia.
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Great post thanks.
 
IamStryker said:
Great post thanks.
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Thanks. And just to be clear I would pay money to watch a match with Tonon (or anyone) against Marcelo. I just like the way he ended his career but I'd be the first one rooting for him if he came back.

fanboysareevil said:
I honestly forgot that Leo competed in 2013.
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2013 was pretty forgettable. Only reason I remember Leo there is because he had a brutal high elbow guillotine that somehow didn't finish AJ so that image sticks in my mind.
 
Marcelo's actually in the best shape he has been since he last competed in ADCC- he is light (in the 170's), and is training regularly with his students and assistant instructors including Bernardo Faria.

If he came back to compete, I'm pretty confident that he would be favored to win both ADCC and Gi Mundials. He's already training hard so his timing is on point...he certainly doesnt need anymore tournament experience other than competing at the biggest tournaments.

This is not to suggest that he is going to compete again- as he is very busy with his family (helping take care of two young children), but he is far from being rusty or old.
 
Would be surprised if any of the danaher guys weren't destroyed by Marcelo in under 5-10 min honestly.
 
kying418 said:
Marcelo's actually in the best shape he has been since he last competed in ADCC- he is light (in the 170's), and is training regularly with his students and assistant instructors including Bernardo Faria.

If he came back to compete, I'm pretty confident that he would be favored to win both ADCC and Gi Mundials. He's already training hard so his timing is on point...he certainly doesnt need anymore tournament experience other than competing at the biggest tournaments.

This is not to suggest that he is going to compete again- as he is very busy with his family (helping take care of two young children), but he is far from being rusty or old.
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That's awesome! I love that Marcelo doesn't care at all about studying tape, or watching anyone else's game, or worrying about what's trendy. He has his game and he's perfected it. All he needs to do is get into it, and you're fucked. It doesn't matter how many heel hooks, or triangles, or brabos, or kimuras you are good at. Even if you're good at techniques that have taken him out before, he's IMO the best ever at winning those tiny micro battles (ie. he's a relentless hand fighting monster) that put him where he needs to be before you can get where you need to be. I'd even say that you could create the perfect game or style to beat him, and he's still going to tear you up if he can win the little tiny battles. Rafa Mendes talked about that at a seminar when someone actually asked him "How do you think you'd do against Marcelo Garcia?"

That was an interesting moment.
 
Be interesting to see marcelo go up against leglock style and berimbolos. Can't recall anyone trying those kind of techniques on him.
 
^
If you go on MGinAction there are probably 30+ vids of Gianni trying invert on him for the entire round, and he teaches counters pretty often. His defense to leglock style seems overwhelmingly centered on prevention rather than cure, same as the rest of his defense.
 
Pierced7681 said:
Be interesting to see marcelo go up against leglock style and berimbolos. Can't recall anyone trying those kind of techniques on him.
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There's a lot on mginaction.com, especially if you look up his rolls with Ryan Hall (around 30), Dillon Danis (at least 20), Gianni Grippo (probably a solid 20), and Braulio Estima (10 at least). Marcelo gets a lot of practice dealing with "modern jiu jitsu" and I learned the majority of my reverse Delariva passing, Delariva/berimbolo passing, and 50.50 passing from him.

There's actually a really awesome gi roll where Marcelo just berimbolos Gianni Grippo repeatedly. It's pretty awesome. I don't know if you have access but it's one of the first rolls on the website that feature Gianni.

The rolls with Danis and Hall are the most leg lock heavy ones that I've seen on the website. Marcelo manages to heel hook both of them in a few rolls. There's a pretty good recent one of Danis in a grey t shirt where they both do nothing but try to heel hook each other for the entire roll.

In competition I'd say watch Marcelo's gi match with Murilo Santana from 2010. Murilo actually swept him with a kiss of the dragon sweep but Marcelo denied the back take and swept right back if I recall.

Not to be a smart ass but you can't find much of people trying any techniques on Marcelo. Marcelo gets in the driver's seat and doesn't stop. In fact usually when people are able to try techniques on him he ends up getting submitted. I can only think of a few "back-and-forth" matches that he's ever had. Usually when he loses it's when someone larger gets going before him, and taps him with either some type of leg or arm triangle (see Terere's triangle, Braulio Estima's arm-in RNC and triangle, and Robert Drysdale's brabo/darce).

Most of his matches are one way streets that end in submission, one way or the other.
 
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Pierced7681 said:
Be interesting to see marcelo go up against leglock style and berimbolos. Can't recall anyone trying those kind of techniques on him.
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Not to be a smart ass but you can't find much of people trying any techniques on Marcelo. Marcelo gets in the driver's seat and doesn't stop. In fact usually when people are able to try techniques on him he ends up getting submitted. I can only think of a few "back-and-forth" matches that he's ever had. Usually when he loses it's when someone larger gets going before him, and taps him with either some type of leg or arm triangle (see Terere's triangle, Braulio Estima's arm-in RNC and triangle, and Robert Drysdale's brabo/darce).

Most of his matches are one way streets that end in submission, one way or the other.
 
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