going vegan or vegetarian!!!

[KPB]

You can have a great diet that includes meat.

You can have a great diet that does not include meat.

The fanatics who say you must eat meat for optimal health or you must not eat meat for optimal health are both wrong.

The act of eating meat or not eating meat will not affect, in and of itself, your athletic performance. There are likely many other factors.

 

[Gavin LeFever]

Yes, do it.

More meat for the rest of us.

 

[younggunz]

I was a vegetarian for a long time, and I liked it...but you have to be smart about your intake...don't dare try this without paying attention and researching a useful diet..

I don't eat red meat or pork...but I do eat a shitload of non-mecury/high protien fish..
chicken/olive oil/dark greens/ fish oil/organic peanut butter...etc...

from Wiki:

Red meat is one of the richest sources of iron. Red meat also contains protein, minerals such as zinc and phosphorus, and vitamins such as niacin, vitamin B12, thiamin and riboflavin..

It's really a choice you need to research..

If you are just trying to cut weight..you can easily do this without cutting meat from your diet.

 

[Sinister]

You can have a great diet that does not include meat.

The fanatics who say you must eat meat for optimal health or you must not eat meat for optimal health are both wrong.

The act of eating meat or not eating meat will not affect, in and of itself, your athletic performance. There are likely many other factors.

That's an amazingly objective viewpoint, that unfortunately has yet to pan-out in the real World. The act of eating meat (or particularly, animal sources of protein) or not will duly effect athletic performance unfortunately, hence, the non-popularity of vegetarianism/veganism among Professional Athletes. Thus far there are a few anomalies, but one can't count on having genetics on their side or invoking evolution by making a dietary choice. Science has not found "the" way to nullify basic human biological needs, despite the optimism of some groups of people.

 

[STWACOACH**]

You can have a great diet that includes meat.

You can have a great diet that does not include meat.

The fanatics who say you must eat meat for optimal health or you must not eat meat for optimal health are both wrong.

The act of eating meat or not eating meat will not affect, in and of itself, your athletic performance. There are likely many other factors.

That my friend is straight up bull shit.

 

[KPB]

That's an amazingly objective viewpoint, that unfortunately has yet to pan-out in the real World. The act of eating meat (or particularly, animal sources of protein) or not will duly effect athletic performance unfortunately, hence, the non-popularity of vegetarianism/veganism among Professional Athletes.

You're telling me you can't have an athletic performance appropriate diet that doesn't include meat?

 

[KPB]

That my friend is straight up bull shit.

And why, my comma fearing friend, is it bull shit?

 

[xConorx]

I've been a vegan 8 yrs and I've had no trouble with weight or training or anything.
like a few people have said, it's not about whether you're vegan or eat meat that dictateshow fat you are or how much energy you have but rather how clean your diet is and what sort of activities you engage in.
I mean, I knew vegan dudes that were fat bastards because they ate crap like sweet and Pepsi and did no exercise.

Mac Danzig (vegan MMA fighter) is gonna be on the next series of TUF apparently, should be interesting.

 

[TheCuttlefish]

BUT what about the poor animals?!?!?!?!

 

[Cooz]

Isn't Lou Savarese Vegetarian?

 

[AZ_MMA]

I heard its good for dieting and cutting weight!

As a vegatarian for 10 years, I can tell you that dieting and cutting weight is the wrong reason to go vegetarian. When you move from a omnivore to a vegetarian diet you try to find foods that are filling and satisfying, which are often high calorie and fatty (pizza, soda, french fries are all vegetarian, but not vegan).

When I went vegetarian I put on 40 pounds; vegetarian does not equal healthy. I held that weight on until I finally made a significant effort to eat healthy, which isn't easy for someone that's active and is a vegatarian. But I'm vegetarian for different reasons (socio-economic) so it's worth the sacrifice to me. If your just looking to eat healthier, you can do it without becoming vegetarian.

 

[AZ_MMA]

That's an amazingly objective viewpoint, that unfortunately has yet to pan-out in the real World. The act of eating meat (or particularly, animal sources of protein) or not will duly effect athletic performance unfortunately, hence, the non-popularity of vegetarianism/veganism among Professional Athletes. Thus far there are a few anomalies, but one can't count on having genetics on their side or invoking evolution by making a dietary choice. Science has not found "the" way to nullify basic human biological needs, despite the optimism of some groups of people.

Is it a performance issue or is it a sociological issue? Professional athletes carry a bit of masculine attitude and often superiority, neither of which lends to a vegetarian diet.

 

[Sinister]

You're telling me you can't have an athletic performance appropriate diet that doesn't include meat?

Note that I specified animal sources of protein. One of the problems of non animal sources is that you run certain risks. One being that your carb and fat intake goes up and the caloric surplus would need to be compensated for. Second is that Soy in Western culture (Eastern cultures have had hundreds and in some cases, thousands of years to adapt) being invoked as a base source of protein has shown in studies to be detrimental to optimal testosterone levels. For those who debate this, the magic number is more than 56g of Soy per day. If one person defies this, or even 10 people do (males), that isn't a reason to run right out and give it a shot. Not if you want to make a living as an athlete. The last debate we had about this in here someone quoted a strength and conditioning Coach who is famous and is vegan I believe. Three things were awry with his statements:

1) He himself isn't in optimal condition.

2) His experience with vegetarian/vegan athletes is limited to two individuals, both female, for whom soy is an optimal source of protein.

3) He used the old "but Gorillas are strong and they don't eat meat", which is both inappropriate in context, and incorrect fundamentally.

Is it a performance issue or is it a sociological issue? Professional athletes carry a bit of masculine attitude and often superiority, neither of which lends to a vegetarian diet.

Masculinity is characteristic of Professional Athletes, sure, but when it comes to things like nutrition the most successful athletes lean towards whatever works the best as opposed to what puts hair on their sack. Most of the shit they eat doesn't taste good to the average person, so I assure you if they thought vegetarianism/veganism were truly healthier and every bit as viable for Professional Athletics, at least 25% of athletes would be avid subscribers.

 

[KPB]

What are the risks associated with rice or hemp protein?

What about a diet that doesn't include meat but does include other animal sources?

Your argument that because professional athletes aren't doing it, that it can't be done or is ineffective is fallacious. I want someone to tell me what is in meat that you can't get somewhere else. Same for animal products in general.

How about this guy: http://www.mikemahler.com/testimonials.html
He, and some of his trainees, eat no animal products.

 

[Cooz]

"but Gorillas are strong and they don't eat meat"

come to think of it...elephants are pretty strong too and last i checked they don't eat meat either.

Incoming thread title "Vegan diet improves strength and size. Proof? See nature"

 

[Sinister]

What about a diet that doesn't include meat but does include other animal sources?

Your argument that because professional athletes aren't doing it, that it can't be done or is ineffective is fallacious. I want someone to tell me what is in meat that you can't get somewhere else. Same for animal products in general.

Your accusation of my "argument" being fallacious is a misunderstanding on your part. I never indicated that Athletes not utilizing a vegetarian/vegan diet was a causation of inefficiency, rather an effect thereof. Most elite level Professional Athletes utilize the services of Dieticians and Nutritionists, not to mention countless medical professionals, and I'm pretty positive they're more knowledgable on the subject than someone who simply wants to believe they might be incorrect at baseline.

It's not impossible to be an Athlete without eating meat specifically, but is it going to be more difficult? Sure. Because there just aren't that many sources of COMPLETE proteins in single instances of other foods, without increasing carb intake significantly. Animal sources provide the best amino profiles per serving, with the least amount of carbohydrates. Not to mention that organic meat provides the often ignored healthy fats as well.

 

[KPB]

Your accusation of my "argument" being fallacious is a misunderstanding on your part. I never indicated that Athletes not utilizing a vegetarian/vegan diet was a causation of inefficiency, rather an effect thereof.

I must have mis-read you when you wrote:

The act of eating meat (or particularly, animal sources of protein) or not will duly effect athletic performance unfortunately, hence, the non-popularity of vegetarianism/veganism among Professional Athletes.

I'm not personally a vegetarian, let alone a vegan. But, it is possible to have a healthy diet that excludes animal products and fully supports athletic performance. That is my only point.

Since soy has fallen from favor, how about my question about rice or hemp protein supplements? Mackie Shilstone still recommends soy (soy foods, that is). Is he misguided?

 

[bacon]

come to think of it...elephants are pretty strong too and last i checked they don't eat meat either.

Incoming thread title "Vegan diet improves strength and size. Proof? See nature"

So....if I become a vegan....will I grow tusks and a kick-ass trunk?!? Sweeeeeet

 

[Sinister]

KPB - Yes you did misread, you missed the "hence". I'm sure you're aware of what "hence" insinuates.

Mackie is misguided in-terms of recommending soy protein as a base for male athletes in excess of 56g per day, if that's his recommendation, yes. That's not me speaking, though, that's Medical Journals. I posted the reference around here somewheres. There's also a link comparing the attributes of Soy to skim milk only, skim milk performed statistically better. Skim milk isn't even as highly established a base source of protein as simple whey concentrates.

So far it has been possible to have a healthy diet that excludes animal products, and still be athletic, for a select few people, and thus far the most successful ones have been female. The others one would have to account genetics as providing the means to adapt, which is sensible because genetics do determine your adaptability to training and environment. However, that is not something to count on.

 

[noise666]

TS,

I've been vegan for almost eleven (11) years now and couldn't be happier. First off all, when I went vegan, I dropped 10lbs in about a month. Losing weight wasn't the goal at the time, but a nice/unexpected reward I must say.

Now that I train six days a week, my diet has become a huge part of my daily life. Personally I feel better than I ever did when I ate the typical omnivore (American) diet. I'd say if you're looking to lose weight, going vegan/vegetarian will be able to do the trick, as long as it's done right. This is the same for as if you were to eat meat. Simply going vegan, and eating vegan ice cream, potato chips and soda will not do the trick.

Personally I monitor my intake of just about everything. Right now my current goal is to continue to drop body fat % while gaining lean muscle mass. I've been on a strict diet for the past five weeks and here is what I've attained so far:

Height: 6' 4" (this didn't change, ha)
Weight: 246.8lbs (changed, explain after these stats)
Body Fat: 16.2% (changed, explain after these stats)

Five weeks ago, when I first started, I was:

Weight: 254.7lbs
Body Fat: 22.4%

When weighing myself weekly I noticed I ended up dropping down to 242lbs. So after dropping body fat, and building lean muscle, I've gained some. After three more weeks of this training/diet routine I plan on changing it up to cut some more weight. Eventually I'd like to get to 230lbs and then maybe do another bulking cycle.

In regards to soy, estrogen levels, etc - I wouldn't worry too much. I'll have another physical after this routine but prior to starting this routine, all my blood work came back with normal levels. Also note that my soy protein intake varies day to day but still is higher than your average person. With this routine though, the only soy protein I'm eating is NON-GMO Tofu. Other than that, my protein comes from nuts, grains, etc.

On that note, I don't have "bitch tittie" or anything of that nature.

I'd suggest you simply give it a shot (if it's something you really are thinking about) and see how you feel. My brother went vegan when he was weighing 325lbs and in three months of being vegan he dropped to 279lbs.

Good luck with whichever decision you make.

Oh, on another note - these people saying we have "non-molar" teeth is just a silly reason for believing we should/are meant to eat meat. Just run out to a pasture and jump on cows back and sink your teeth in. See what you get. I'm doubting you'll satisfy your hunger.

Just because we've evolved and developed methods of slaughtering the animals for food doesn't mean it's quality evolution. In fact, a lot of what we've evolved and developed isn't in sync with evolution. If you ask me, we are taking a giant leap backwards with some of the shit we've come up with as humans.

Anyway, good luck!